Number of steps allowed after picking up the dribble...

[IBHookin43]

I thought I knew this, but I'm beginning to wonder.

I'm thinking that if you pick up the dribble with one foot touching the floor, then that is your pivot foot. Then, if you step again with that pivot foot you must release the ball on a pass or shot before it touches the floor again.

Is that correct? Is it legally the same in NCAA, FIBA, and the NBA (I know the NBA is liberal in applying this rule, if it is the same)??

The reason I'm asking is because I just got a pretty good DVD by a guy that trains NBA players (e.g., W.S.) In it he shows details on a couple of moves that look like a travel to me. He makes a point in other parts of the video to emphasis areas to be careful so as not to get a travel call, but casually states that you get two steps after the dribble on the move in question.

Here is the move...

The dribble is in the left hand, the opposite foot (right) is planted for spin move and the ball is picked up on the spin (or pivot). He then proceeds to step going to basket with the left foot and then the right to finish with a left handed layup.

Seems to me that picking the ball up on the spin establishes the right foot as the pivot foot and then the final step with the right foot again constitutes a travel.

Is this incorrect? Is there some other traveling guideline applied on a basket attack?

There are a few variations off this move that fall in the same category (i.e., 2 steps after picking up the dribble rather than one). I like the moves, but want to make sure they aren't traveling violations before I teach them to younger players.

I would appreciate any assistance in helping me better understand the rules here.

Thanks in advance.

Rick

[BktBallRef]

Traveling, Rick.

Picking up your pivot and putting it back down while still holding the ball is traveling in the cases you describe.

[Adam]

My understanding is that NBA rules allow for that extra step to establish the pivot foot. NBA rules only, so do not teach younger players this move.
On a layup, they should pick the ball up while in the air between steps; giving them what looks like two steps.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by IBHookin43
... I just got a pretty good DVD by a guy that trains NBA players ...

If it's for training NBA players, then it probably uses NBA rules, which for travelling are much different from any other ruleset.

[IBHookin43]

Originally posted by rainmaker

If it's for training NBA players, then it probably uses NBA rules, which for travelling are much different from any other ruleset.

The NBA rules on traveling (see below) don't appear that different...do they? It still appears that first count occurs when he picks up the ball from the dribble with either foot touching the floor. And (g) still indicates that the ball must be passed or shot after picking up the pivot foot before returning it to the floor.

Where is this extra step I keep hearing about???


Section XIV-Traveling
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.
The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
(2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultane- ously after he receives the ball, if both feet are off the floor when he receives it.
The second occurs:
(1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
c. A player who comes to a stop on the count of one may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
d. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot.
e. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot.
f. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player's hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
h. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.
i. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.

[Brad]

Originally posted by IBHookin43
Where is this extra step I keep hearing about???

Right here: two-count rhythm

That's different than your first foot down becoming the pivot. Although I think that more and more HS and college officials are calling it the same way the NBA does.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by IBHookin43

The NBA rules on traveling (see below) don't appear that different...do they? It still appears that first count occurs when he picks up the ball from the dribble with either foot touching the floor. And (g) still indicates that the ball must be passed or shot after picking up the pivot foot before returning it to the floor.

Where is this extra step I keep hearing about???

I don't pretend to know or understand the NBA rules, or how they are called. I do know that the interpretation makes the end result a lot different from high school. HS ball is called fairly tightly with regard to travelling. If you're doing high school rules, and using an NBA training tape, you'll be getting into a heap of trouble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Brad

Right here: two-count rhythm

That's different than your first foot down becoming the pivot. Although I think that more and more HS and college officials are calling it the same way the NBA does.

Brad is correct. There is no "two count rhythm" in NFHS or NCAA basketball.

[IBHookin43]

Brad: Regarding "two-count rhythm", it says ...

The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.

This sure sounds like count one is when he picks it up on the spin move.

Too bad there isn't a clarification document for dummies like me. Already I can see there is a large potential for disparity in interpretations.

However, Rainmaker makes a great point...it doesn't matter what the rules say...it's how it is perceived by the persons calling the game.

Thanks to all for the insights.

Rick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by IBHookin43
Brad: Regarding "two-count rhythm", it says ...

The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.

This sure sounds like count one is when he picks it up on the spin move.

That's true, Rick, but the pivot isn't established until the 2nd count. The first count is receiving the ball (or picking up your dribble). But that doesn't establish his pivot foot. He gets to complete the two-count by bringing the other foot to the floor.

Now, if the feet are the same distance from the basket, then either can be the pivot. If the feet are not the same distance from the basket, then only the farther foot may be the pivot.

So you catch the ball with one foot on the floor. In HS and NCAA, that foot is the pivot as soon as the other foot touches the floor. However, in the NBA, it is possible that the other foot will be the pivot, depending on where it lands on the second "count".

Hope that makes sense.

[IBHookin43]

Yes, I now see the difference!

Thank you, Chuck, for the great clarification.

[aucella]

A1 is dribbling the ball on a drive to the basketball how many steps is he allowed to complete the drive once he picks up his dribble before it is cosidered traveling by HS rules

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by aucella
A1 is dribbling the ball on a drive to the basketball how many steps is he allowed to complete the drive once he picks up his dribble before it is cosidered traveling by HS rules

The travelling rule doesn't consider "steps"

It's travelling if the pivot foot is lifted and then returned to the floor before the ball is released.

[ChuckElias]

In HS and NCAA, if the player picks up his dribble with either foot on the ground, then that foot is the pivot foot. He may then step with the other foot and either pass, shoot, or jump (or request a TO); he can do all of that as long as that pivot foot doesn't come back to the floor.

If the player picks up his dribble with both feet off the floor, then the first foot to hit the floor becomes the pivot as soon as the other foot touches the floor. Once that pivot is established, he can do all the things mentioned in the first paragraph.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
In HS and NCAA, if the player picks up his dribble with either foot on the ground, then that foot is the pivot foot. He may then step with the other foot and either pass, shoot, or jump (or request a TO); he can do all of that as long as that pivot foot doesn't come back to the floor.

What if a player picks up his dribble with one foot on the ground, jumps off that foot, lands on both feet simultaneously?