Foul on AP throw in

ref18 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 09:21pm

I had a game a few weeks ago where a held ball was called, Team A had the arrow, and on the resulting throw-in, A2 committed a foul. Now, should the arrow be switched, or does it stay the same because A1 never released the ball??

At the game, the arrow stayed in favour of A.

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 09:28pm

6-3-4
The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates.

Doesn't saything about reversing it because of a foul, does it?

ref18 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 09:31pm

That was the main thing i had trouble with, does that foul count as a violation on the throwing team??

JugglingReferee · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 09:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
I had a game a few weeks ago where a held ball was called, Team A had the arrow, and on the resulting throw-in, A2 committed a foul. Now, should the arrow be switched, or does it stay the same because A1 never released the ball??

At the game, the arrow stayed in favour of A.

A keeps the arrow here.

The arrow only turns after the throw-in has completed.

There are two ways a throw-in can end: (i) the throw-in is completed and (ii) the throwing-in team violates during the throw-in.

A throw-in is completed when the legally inbounded ball touches a player inbounds first, including the intentional act of B kicking the ball. A throwing-in violation could result via a 5-second count, stepping in the inbounds portion of the court, moving outside of the allocated throw-in location, or illegally inbounding the ball.

I think that covers everything... if there is soemthing else, someone please add it!

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 09:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
That was the main thing i had trouble with, does that foul count as a violation on the throwing team??

A foul isn't a violation and a violation isn't a foul.

Stat-Man · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 10:47pm

Would the Arrow stay if the foul was a technical foul?

Scenario: Arrow favors team A. Held ball situation. Before the throw-in can begin, A's coach gets T'd up.
Does the arrow change?

(Incidentally, I am glad to see some officials know of this rule. Every time this comes up at one of my games and the officials wonder why the arrow didn't change, I get weird looks like I'm making rules up).

JugglingReferee · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 19, 2004, 11:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Stat-Man
Would the Arrow stay if the foul was a technical foul?

Scenario: Arrow favors team A. Held ball situation. Before the throw-in can begin, A's coach gets T'd up.
Does the arrow change?

(Incidentally, I am glad to see some officials know of this rule. Every time this comes up at one of my games and the officials wonder why the arrow didn't change, I get weird looks like I'm making rules up).

Is a technical foul a foul?

If you can answer that question, then you can answer your own question too!

pbrad59 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 11:39am

Jumpin in here at a moments notice. What do you do when A fouls on A's throw in and it puts them in the bonus? I'm sure the answer is obvious but I'm not seeing it at the moment.

rockyroad · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 11:44am

You have B shoot free-throws...next held ball, the arrow will still be A's...

Adam · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 11:57am

I really don't like this aspect. As far as I'm concerned, the arrow should change when the ball is handed to the thrower. Everything that happens after that is a direct result of the throw in, therefore the arrow has served its purpose.

But, I'm not on "the committee."

Jay R · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by pbrad59
Jumpin in here at a moments notice. What do you do when A fouls on A's throw in and it puts them in the bonus? I'm sure the answer is obvious but I'm not seeing it at the moment.

NCAA. No Free throws. Team control foul.

rockyroad · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
I really don't like this aspect. As far as I'm concerned, the arrow should change when the ball is handed to the thrower. Everything that happens after that is a direct result of the throw in, therefore the arrow has served its purpose.

But, I'm not on "the committee."

So A has the arrow, you hand them the ball, and have the arrow switched, then B4 grabs A4 and throws him/her to the floor before the ball is thrown-in...you properly call the foul but A never gets their throw-in??? And you like that idea???

Camron Rust · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 02:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

A throw-in is completed when the legally inbounded ball touches a player inbounds first, including the intentional act of B kicking the ball. A throwing-in violation could result via a 5-second count, stepping in the inbounds portion of the court, moving outside of the allocated throw-in location, or illegally inbounding the ball.

I think that covers everything... if there is soemthing else, someone please add it!

Not quite...

A throw-in is completed when the legally inbounded ball touches ~~a player inbounds first~~ another player inbounds or out-of-bounds.

It is a legal throwin to pass the ball such that the player that touches it is OOB (but not on the same boundary line). It is a violation...but it is not a throwin violation. So, an arrow is switched when either the defense or offense touches the ball while OOB.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Apr 20th, 2004 at 03:37 PM]

Art N · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 20, 2004, 06:56pm

Right On Rocky! That's a good example of WHY we don't have the arrow changed when the ball is handed to the thrower. Here's another....I was doing the books for my sons HS team a few years ago and Team A had a violation on the initial second half AP throw in (after they were handed the ball!). The home team's , team A, clock operator left the arrow with A! We had no more jump balls the entire half.
With 5 seconds left and losing by one point there was an AP situation. Team A was "awarded" the ball under their basket. They called a timeout to set up ther final play.(FYI...I could not see the AP arrow from my seat, since it was facing the floor). I called over the two officials and confirmed that we had no other jump balls and that A violated on their initial throw in at the half. They corrected it and of course Team A was upset. It sealed the win for my sons team. DO I GET AN ASSIST ON THAT ONE? lol

JugglingReferee · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 21, 2004, 06:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

A throw-in is completed when the legally inbounded ball touches a player inbounds first, including the intentional act of B kicking the ball. A throwing-in violation could result via a 5-second count, stepping in the inbounds portion of the court, moving outside of the allocated throw-in location, or illegally inbounding the ball.

I think that covers everything... if there is soemthing else, someone please add it!

Not quite...

A throw-in is completed when the legally inbounded ball touches ~~a player inbounds first~~ another player inbounds or out-of-bounds.

It is a legal throwin to pass the ball such that the player that touches it is OOB (but not on the same boundary line). It is a violation...but it is not a throwin violation. So, an arrow is switched when either the defense or offense touches the ball while OOB.

Thanks Camron. I was in a hurry and I knew there'd be something I missed.