Is this appreciated, or not (this is in line with "thats not my call"

[TigerBball]

I have been in situations where one partner sees something differently and they are talking about it longer than 30 seconds or so and I agree with the change they are discussing making, I will try to get their attention and indicate that I have no problem with the change that is going to go against me.

At my level, this type of thing happens a lot on jump balls when the scorebench did not track it properly. The refs will be thinking back on the game to determine whose ball it should be, and I am sure it is not ours, I will let them know this.

If I am sure it is mine, I will sit back and wait, I don't want to be pushy when it should be in my favor. 99% of the time they get it right. On that 1% of the time, I will tell them what I remember when they bring the coaches together. A couple times they have said, "oh yeah, forgot about that jump" and changed it.

[ChuckElias]

Tiger, is what exactly "appreciated"?

I appreciate when my partner tells me he is 100% sure that I gave the ball to the wrong team on an OOB play. I do not appreciate when my partner makes a traveling call from midcourt when I clearly saw that the player 5 feet in front of me did not have possession of the ball.

[TigerBball]

Sorry, should have been more specific.

Do you as an official appreciate it when a coach somehow indicates to you during a situation where a call is unclear or there is going to be some discussion, that he agrees that the call should go against him.

I do this about once a year. The officials are discussing something nearby and I agree that the call made is wrong and they should reverse it, and it will go against my team. I will try to let the officials know that I agree with the reversal, so that they do not feel they have to keep discussing and/or come up to me and offer some sort of explanation.

Or, do you want us just to butt out of it.

I don't get involved if I think the reversal should go in my favor, only when I think it should go against me.

My goal is to show my players that is more important to be honest and lose than lie and win. If I can help the official make the correct call with calm input, I will, even when it hurts my team.

[footlocker]

I appreciate it. Let's me know I can keep the game moving without an explanation. Sometimes these situations require one. Not having to give it makes it easier.

Integrity is big. I would not appreciate the coach that believes this earns him lattitude later in a game when he wants to argue. Or comes up to me to work me afterwards.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by TigerBball
Do you as an official appreciate it when a coach somehow indicates to you during a situation where a call is unclear or there is going to be some discussion, that he agrees that the call should go against him.

Oh, ok. You're asking about the coach's response, not the official's actions.

It doesn't usually happen to me quite the way you say it. But when a situation has to be addressed or fixed, the best outcome is for me to discuss the situation with my partner(s), away from the table and coaches; then to discuss it with the table personnel if necessary, away from the coaches; then to bring the coaches together and explain the situation and what we've done to correct it; and then to have both coaches say, "I understand".

Sometimes one coach is not happy with the "fix", and sometimes both coaches are fine with it. The best option, of course, is not to have situations that need fixing But if I can get both coaches to say, "Ok, I understand", I think that's as much as I can hope for. Anything more than that is gravy.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TigerBball
Or, do you want us just to butt out of it.

I want you to just butt out, but that is really too strong of a phrase in my opinion. Integrity is great, but if the arrow is wrong or something is wrong, it is not your job to inform us. For one thing, you could be wrong. I have had coaches try to be honest, but forgot about the previous play or the previous time when we used the AP or even if FTs should have been shot. As it relates to the AP arrow, I do not use that as my final indicator. I always try to remember when the last time was in my head and if I am in the game, I know when that time was, with the time on the clock and team we gave the ball to. But I try my best not to have those things happen, but when they do my partners and I should figure it out for ourselves. Because we do not know when you are trying to get us to make a mistake or being honest. Maybe we run into you one time, and the next time we run into the scoundrel that is trying to "cheat" his way to the ball. So I would rather not take your imput.

Peace

[ref18]

That is why I either have an elastic around my wrist or a coin or extra whistle in my pocket. A lot of the time the table crew is inexperienced and you have to be aware of whether or not the arrow's been changed.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ref18
That is why I either have an elastic around my wrist or a coin or extra whistle in my pocket. A lot of the time the table crew is inexperienced and you have to be aware of whether or not the arrow's been changed.

Please tell me you are not serious?

Peace

[ref18]

i tried the elastic, but i found a few broke, and flew around on the floor, now I stick with the coin or whistle in my pocket.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by ref18
i tried the elastic, but i found a few broke, and flew around on the floor, now I stick with the coin or whistle in my pocket.

I think you should use whatever you feel makes your job easier and improves your perfomance. If you find that helps, continue doing it and ignore sarcastic remarks from other officials in this forum. Quite a number of experienced HS varsity officials use the coin in the pocket.

[ace]

whats so hard about remebering it? I dont use a lanyard (on most occasions) so i've got an extra lanyardless whistle in my pocket I was doing the swithcero and my mentor took my back-up whistle away from me for two reasons... one If I referee without a lanyard I should NEVER drop my whistle (If your gunna do it, do it right) and two remeber it in your head or rely on your table crew. Also, if you dont use a lanyard superviors tend to not like the stuffing it in pocket or wasit band idea. Hold it. NBA has an excuse because they have numbers larger than 5 but i've seen alot of officials hold ten fingers up with a whilse in the hand... for a drafting project im working incorperating some sort of clip or something to put the whistle on a waist band, pocket edge, and not interefere with the whistle. If it goes well I'll submit it to Fox40. Also thought about something that would fit on ur finger like a ring and when when take the whistle out of ur mouth it'd "clip" onto something on the whistle and hold it incase u needed all 10 fingers free. I know I know, wouldnt it be easier to use a lanyard? probably. I've just gotten so used to refereeing without one.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TravelinMan


I think you should use whatever you feel makes your job easier and improves your perfomance. If you find that helps, continue doing it and ignore sarcastic remarks from other officials in this forum. Quite a number of experienced HS varsity officials use the coin in the pocket.

I do not know any experienced veteran, respected officials that use a coin. For one, you see an official constantly going in and out of their pocket. That just looks terrible. You can always do what you want, but if you cannot remember something that happens less than 10 times in a game, I wonder what else you are not focused on? And what if you forget to move your coin? Are you going to rely solely on where you have the coin? It seems to me if you cannot remember who last got the ball, you might forget where the coin or whistle is in your pocket as well. The reason why you should be focused on the game to remember such things.

But then again, you can always do what you feel. But when I instruct officials, I never tell them to use those things. Because I have known several guys that forget to move the coin or whatever device that "helps" them remember the possession arrow. And the officials that are into the game are the ones that save our butts.

Peace

[footlocker]

I agree. No pocket reminder or wristband. My partern and I communicate this to each other at every free throw administration, "red arrow." We try and stay on top of it for a few reasons; to avoid mistakes and make sure the table has it right, and because it looks so much better when you and your partner can signal the jump ball then direction without having to 'grab your wrists,' 'check your pockets,' or 'turn around to look at the table.'

We also can keep our focus on the tie up and players involved.

[JRutledge]

Another reason I have a problem with a coin or rubber band, what if you are wrong from the beginning? What if you forgot who got the ball on the jump and the table for some reason screws up with which way they point? To me you have to be in the game and using those devices can cause more problems and get your focus off the players where your concentration really needs to be.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

I think you should use whatever you feel makes your job easier and improves your perfomance. If you find that helps, continue doing it and ignore sarcastic remarks from other officials in this forum. Quite a number of experienced HS varsity officials use the coin in the pocket.

Not that I see.

Doesn't say much for your game awareness if you need a cruch to keep track of something as simple as who has the arrow.