Back Over Centre

[Peter Devana]

Hi Everyone,
Here in B.C. Canada we have just reverted to using NCAA Men's rules at all levels after 25 years of FIBA. The interpretation re: Backover seems to have changed with the exceptions. I understand that on Throw-ins the centre line disappears and anyone can catch the ball while airborne and travel from front court to back with no violation-This is also true for jump ball situations. When the ball is inbounds a pass may be intercepted by the defence while airborne and again the defence can carry it from front to back with no violation. What about the offence?? Why can't they catch a pass thats coming from their back to front court while airborne and go from front to back without violation or is this legal??? What if A1 in the front court is passing to A2,also in the front court, - A2 sees its going to be intercepted -leaps and catcheswhile airborne it and the leap causes him to land in the backcourt.Violation right?? It seems to me that the defence is gaining unfair advantages from these exceptions. What is the call if in the last example A2 catches it airborne but before he lands backcourt B1 creates a held ball while they both are airborne-Do you have a held ball-AP or back over call??? Unfortunately I don't have a case book yet so I need your help!!!!
YIBB
Pistol

[bob jenkins]

The offense is held to a higher standard because they can ( or should be able to) control the play -- when and where to pass it.

On your last play (held ball in air, then land in back court), it's a held ball since that happened first. The ball became dead and it doesn't matter where the players land.

[Hawks Coach]

I am not familiar with all of the exceptions that are in the NCAA rules, but I see no problem with the defense being treated just slightly differently than the offense. Once the offense has established the ball front court, they are responsible for maintaining that position and they are responsible for any backcourt violation that occurs. They put it there, they must keep it there. The defense does not really have team control in front court (except by a very technical interpretation of the rules) when they intercept a pass while airborn and moving toward their backcourt. I think it is a sensible exception that rewards good defensive play. Any similar play by the offense is poor offensive play and should not be rewarded.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Hi Everyone,
Here in B.C. Canada - Backover - centre - defence - defence - offence?? - defence

Hey - if you guys are not using FEEBLE (FIBA) rules anymore, then stop spelling in metric!

[hoopsrefBC]

Hey (Peter)Pistol

I too am from BC and am enjoying the change from FIBA to NCAA. Interesting situation for you to think about.

Team 'A' is on offensive and has the ball for a front court throw-in under team 'B' basket. A1 throws the ball to A2, A2 instead of catching the ball, tips the ball into A1 back-court. A1 then runs into the back court and retrieves the ball. What's your call? Don't forget to start your 10 count when the ball strikes the floor in the back-court!


Were you in Vernon?
How did you do on the test?
By the way the BCCAA women are still using CIAU womens rules which are based on FIBA.

keep smiling
SH

[Todd VandenAkker]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
I understand that on Throw-ins the centre line disappears and anyone can catch the ball while airborne and travel from front court to back with no violation-This is also true for jump ball situations. When the ball is inbounds a pass may be intercepted by the defence while airborne and again the defence can carry it from front to back with no violation. What about the offence?? Why can't they catch a pass thats coming from their back to front court while airborne and go from front to back without violation or is this legal???

Pistol, your 3 scenarios regarding catching the ball and then landing in the back court are accurate. I would add that in EACH case, the player gaining control while in the air could even land with one foot in the front court first and the second foot in the backcourt--all legally. This is part of allowing the player to make a "normal landing" without violating. As to the offensive player, since his team has control of the ball, he is obligated to observe the backcourt restrictions and, as we all know, his position on the court is dictated by where he last touched the court.

What if A1 in the front court is passing to A2,also in the front court, - A2 sees its going to be intercepted -leaps and catcheswhile airborne it and the leap causes him to land in the backcourt. Violation right??

Right, it is a backcourt violation.

What is the call if in the last example, A2 catches it airborne but before he lands backcourt B1 creates a held ball while they both are airborne-Do you have a held ball-AP or back over call

You could have a held ball here, if both players have a firm enough grasp of the ball. Then it's "AP." But if one player fairly easily ends up with the ball before landing back on the floor, then you would call it accordingly: backcourt violation if A2 ends up with it, or play on if the defense intercepts it.

The "why" of it all is probably more philosophical, but that's the way the rules read as I understand them. The team with "team control" has the onus of watching out for an "over and back" violation, while the other team hasn't controlled the ball yet in their front court so needn't worry about that call.

**Sorry about the duplication of some others' response. A bunch of people responded before I even finished typing. Guess I musta been too long-winded.

[Edited by Todd VandenAkker on Dec 18th, 2000 at 01:17 PM]

[Peter Devana]

Your question needs to be rewritten I think. If A has the ball under B's basket in NCAA rules A is in his own backcourt to begin with. No I Didn't make Vernon was on holidays in Mexico and we just wrote our test and the results have not come back.

[Peter Devana]

Thanks Guys for all the responses. Your answers confirmed my thoughts but I wasn't sure. Do any of you understand what BCref is getting at??
Pistol

[Peter Devana]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Hey - if you guys are not using FEEBLE (FIBA) rules anymore, then stop spelling in metric!

[Peter Devana]

We may be lying in bed with the Elephant but we still are faithful to the Queen!!!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
We may be lying in bed with the Elephant but we still are faithful to the Queen!!!

What's Richard Simmons got to do with this?

[hoopsrefBC]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Your question needs to be rewritten I think. If A has the ball under B's basket in NCAA rules A is in his own backcourt to begin with. No I Didn't make Vernon was on holidays in Mexico and we just wrote our test and the results have not come back.

Your right to many years of FIBA, it should be 'A''s basket.

[hoopsrefBC]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

What's Richard Simmons got to do with this?

Isn't he your new leader.....




Peter,let me know how you did, any questions that you found hard or confusing?

keep smiling
SH

[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Dec 18th, 2000 at 06:22 PM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
Hey (Peter)Pistol

I too am from BC and am enjoying the change from FIBA to NCAA. Interesting situation for you to think about.

Team 'A' is on offensive and has the ball for a front court throw-in under team 'B' basket. A1 throws the ball to A2, A2 instead of catching the ball, tips the ball into A1 back-court. A1 then runs into the back court and retrieves the ball. What's your call? Don't forget to start your 10 count when the ball strikes the floor in the back-court!


Were you in Vernon?
How did you do on the test?
By the way the BCCAA women are still using CIAU womens rules which are based on FIBA.

keep smiling
SH

1) I'm assuming (partly based on reading the other responses) that the ball is really under A's basket, but it realy doesn't matter.

2) There's no such thing as a "front court throw-in". Out of bounds is neither front court nor back court.

3) Since there's no team control on a throw in, there's no back court violation on this play.

4) Since there's no team control on a throw in, the 10-second backcourt count doesn't start until A gains control of the ball -- not when the ball strikes the floor in the back court.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC

Isn't he your new leader.....

No - our new leader is George "Dumb? Ya!" Bush. That's because he got fewer votes. From now on, teams that score the lesser number of points in a game will be declared the winner by the Florida Supreme Court. (Sorry - no winky face here - it's not really funny)