Last dance...last chance

[BktBallRef]

Another season in the books.

Worked my last game, last night.

Boys 2A, 2nd round, 8 fouls in the first half, 7 fouls in the second half, until 1:18 to go. Vistors fouled 4 or 5 times to no avail, 62-53, final. Lots of jumpers and zone defenses. Game over in an hour-ten!

Sigh.

[cmathews]

Had my last NHFS game of the year last nite also. Regional finals 2a Boys. The favorite was down as much as 11 in the second half but came back to win. Great game to work, packed house had a blast...lookin forward to next year...

[JRutledge]

Why so early? Tony, you did a State Final last year. If you were in my state, you would probably get another chance at the State Finals or go a few rounds closer to that. What is the procedure in your state?

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Nope, normally you can work in the Regional Tourney once every three years. State Finals officials come from the Regional pool. It's to insure that everyone who's qualified gets a fair opportunity to go to The Dance.

Hey, where's BBallCoach? Why isn't he busting my ballz for enjoying my last game?

[One-Whistle]

Worked my last NFHS game of the season yesterday afternoon (Boys JV). Sadly, this game was just plain U-G-L-Y.

40+ fouls, neither team "adjusted" to the way the officials were enforcing the rules.

The visiting team finished the game with 3 players on the court. They had a roster of seven players; best player broke his toe in second quarter and three others fouled out. The first player fouled out with a minute left in the third quarter.

Interestingly, the visitors actually closed the margin in the fourth quarter from 16 to 9 with just 4 (and then 3) players on the court. One of their outside shooters got hot and hit multiple threes.

[Bart Tyson]

Did my last NCAA reg. season game last night. Just a mop up game 1 vs 6. I had 3 PC calls. I think that is a record for me in one game.

[dblref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Another season in the books.

Worked my last game, last night.

Boys 2A, 2nd round, 8 fouls in the first half, 7 fouls in the second half, until 1:18 to go. Vistors fouled 4 or 5 times to no avail, 62-53, final. Lots of jumpers and zone defenses. Game over in an hour-ten!

Sigh.

How can your season be over with so much rec ball to do. I know you just love rec ball.

BTW, congratulations on your season. I know you are in the Fayetteville area (I used to live there), but how large is the district/area that you officiate? Do you get anywhere near the Triangle area, or down towards Lumberton or Pembroke area?

[BktBallRef]

We don't go any farther north than Fayetteville, as far west as Wadesboro and Rockingham, south to the border, and east, almost to the coast. And yes, we have Lumberton and Robeson Co. and it's as rough as ever down there.

http://www.saoa.faync.com

[Rich]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Nope, normally you can work in the Regional Tourney once every three years. State Finals officials come from the Regional pool. It's to insure that everyone who's qualified gets a fair opportunity to go to The Dance.

Hey, where's BBallCoach? Why isn't he busting my ballz for enjoying my last game?

As it's my second year in Wisconsin, I'm not even eligible for a single postseason game. Was scheduled for about 35 varsity games and worked two of the number 1 boys teams in the state (4 divisions) during the regular season.

Next season I'll be eligible because I went to camps the past two summers, which allows me to skip over "levels." Last year as a "new" official, I was a Level 1, this year a Level 3, and next year I'll be a Level 5. Five levels and then a "Master" level. Only L5 and Master can work any playoffs at all in basketball. To be a "Master" official you only need to score a 90% on the Part I and Part II exams (both open book), attend the state meeting, and work 16 varsity games the previous season. Until this season, only Master officials could work any playoff games, but there's been a bit of a shakeup and I know that some of the L5 officials are working the state tournament.

I probably would've been done this week anyway. I've really hurt myself by moving about the country (4 moves to new states since 1997), but I've always realized that my day job and career have to come first in this life, so I made the moves.

I like the system you have Tony. I read Jeff's post and I thought -- with so many good officials in Illinois, why would someone who worked a state be anywhere near it again such a short time later? We really need to make officiating so that qualified people get rewarded for the time they put into this avocation. I can't see how you do that by rewarding the same people year after year.

--Rich

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
I like the system you have Tony. I read Jeff's post and I thought -- with so many good officials in Illinois, why would someone who worked a state be anywhere near it again such a short time later? We really need to make officiating so that qualified people get rewarded for the time they put into this avocation. I can't see how you do that by rewarding the same people year after year.

--Rich

Rich we have 4 different playoff levels. Two girls, Class A and AA and two Boy's, Class A and AA. An officials is not going to do all of them. The Class A Girl's State Finals ended this weekend. An official is not going to be able to do that, then work the Class AA Girl's Super-Sectional Finals all in the same week. That is not very realistic. Each level has their own State Final Weekend, we do not put them all in a pot together, like other states. It is even rare for an official to do both classes of Boy's playoffs for example. It is also unlikely that an official is going to degrade so much that he or she would not be capable of doing a State Final and the next season only being able to do a Regional and no further then next year (first level of playoff assignments). I should not jump from a Regional assignement to a Super-Sectional the next year (my opinion). There is too much on the line to just put anyone in that situation. You should have to prove your ability first, then you get the opportunity to move thru the playoffs. Just like the all pro levels I am aware of. They do not make you elgible right off the bat for playoffs. I know in the NFL and NBA, you have to work so many years before you can smell the playoffs. Same way in Illinois. You just have to be Certified (takes 5 years at the very least) and then qualify for all the things that get you in at that particular playoff level.

I just thought it was odd that Tony had a State Final game, then is doing a much lower level the next year. I am sure he is not that bad as compared to last year. Why not let him get close if not go back again? Then as the other officials earn their place, they can take his place.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Rich we have 4 different playoff levels. Two girls, Class A and AA and two Boy's, Class A and AA. An officials is not going to do all of them. The Class A Girl's State Finals ended this weekend. An official is not going to be able to do that, then work the Class AA Girl's Super-Sectional Finals all in the same week. That is not very realistic. Each level has their own State Final Weekend, we do not put them all in a pot together, like other states. It is even rare for an official to do both classes of Boy's playoffs for example. It is also unlikely that an official is going to degrade so much that he or she would not be capable of doing a State Final and the next season only being able to do a Regional and no further then next year (first level of playoff assignments). I should not jump from a Regional assignement to a Super-Sectional the next year (my opinion). There is too much on the line to just put anyone in that situation. You should have to prove your ability first, then you get the opportunity to move thru the playoffs. Just like the all pro levels I am aware of. They do not make you elgible right off the bat for playoffs. I know in the NFL and NBA, you have to work so many years before you can smell the playoffs. Same way in Illinois. You just have to be Certified (takes 5 years at the very least) and then qualify for all the things that get you in at that particular playoff level.

I just thought it was odd that Tony had a State Final game, then is doing a much lower level the next year. I am sure he is not that bad as compared to last year. Why not let him get close if not go back again? Then as the other officials earn their place, they can take his place.

Peace

Because it usually doesn't work out this way. It usually ends up where the same officials get to a sectional or state for 20+ years running and some very qualified people aren't given the opportunity.

It's EASY to use people that have been there before. It's less easy to take a small chance on someone who hasn't worked at that level, observing them through the season, and then having confidence that the crew will step up and work a great game.

It shouldn't take 20+ seasons working top level ball to get a state tournament. However, I've seen people take that long or never get there that were certainly good enough -- while others worked state for the third, fourth, or fifth times.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Because it usually doesn't work out this way. It usually ends up where the same officials get to a sectional or state for 20+ years running and some very qualified people aren't given the opportunity.

Not the case in our state. There used to be an unwritten rule that an official that did 3 State Final Assignments, did not go back anymore. They had to back off of that, mainly because there were no enough officials to just move up the latter. Now Dave Gannaway said that officials have the potential to go two years in a row and have to take a year off. But the two years in a row is not guaranteed and I know officials that went one year and did not go back the following year. Or better yet, did not get even a Super-Sectional that following year. No, so we do not have guys going 20 years in a row.

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
It's EASY to use people that have been there before. It's less easy to take a small chance on someone who hasn't worked at that level, observing them through the season, and then having confidence that the crew will step up and work a great game.

Rich, many folks that work the State Finals, do not work it again. So the people that get there each year, and it is there first time. Especially in Basketball. It is harder to have the same attitude in a sport like Baseball or Softball for example. We just do not have the numbers to be so deliberate. There are 12 different officials that go to the State Finals at a particular level. They are guaranteed two games. So they can work a combination of the Quarterfinals (everyone works this level), Semi-Finals, 3rd place game and the Championship game. And it has been shown that if you get the Championship game, you probably are not going back anytime soon. The Treasurer of one of my associations went down State (what we call the State Finals around here) and he did the Championship game, has not been back sense. And another official that has worked with him, has not been back either.

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
It shouldn't take 20+ seasons working top level ball to get a state tournament. However, I've seen people take that long or never get there that were certainly good enough -- while others worked state for the third, fourth, or fifth times.

Well going back several times might be common where you live, but that is not very common here. And no, it does not take 20 years for everyone to get there. It has taken guys 15 or 17. I even think someone that had 12 years went down a few years ago for the first time. But you are just not going to get there because you "think" you deserve that opporutunity. I agree you should not just send the same people over and over again, year after year, but you should not have officials that bearly have playoff experience putting them at the top without a process. But I am speaking for the Boy's side too. The girls side there are more "qualified" officials to work and move thru the ranks. It is just that everyone does not make themselves availible. Most officials I know want to move thru the ranks at the Boy's level and want to do so at the Class AA level. Reason being, the players are higher profile and D1 type talent. But if it was me, I would be happy at Class A too. But you do get a certain amount of respect at the Class AA Boy's level you never get doing Girl's Class A State Finals. Just the facts, I do not make the rules.

Peace

Peace