PAC 10 Officiating

[icallfouls]

I don't believe that we are going to see eye to eye on this discussion, nor do I believe that you are concerned about officiating in general, so let's call it what it is. You have a vested interest in who wins and loses. I have no problem with that.

The specific calls you are referring to have all gone against your beloved 'cats, and one happened nearly 10 years ago! Not only that, you reference an article from the campus daily paper, whose purpose is to validate the fans of UA. I would bet a PAC 10 game fee, better yet, dinner out for you and your significant other, that the UCLA daily paper had nothing to say about the call in question.

It all comes down to this, and officials know it. Every time we blow our whistle, 50% of fans will like the call, while the other 50% will, well, cry foul.

With all that said, if your intent is to see things done better, I have plenty of gear I will donate to your ref'ing career. BTW, you probably won't be allowed to work any UA games since you are an alum.

BTW2, tell Chris Rodgers that I'd still 'T' him if he taunted that player again. Actually, he's a good kid.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by wildcatman


Let me explain this in simpler terms for you. I may not know how to make a cake, but I can definitely tell you when a cake is good or bad.

Of course, you don't know WHY the cake is bad, whether it's not enough sugar or too much flour, or maybe the milk you're drinking is what is actually bad or maybe even what you're tasting is exactly what the baker intended but you just don't happen to like chocolate. Simply because you are ignorant on the topic.

(You're still a troll BTW, and not even a particularly good one I might add)

[wildcatman]

Originally posted by icallfouls
I don't believe that we are going to see eye to eye on this discussion, nor do I believe that you are concerned about officiating in general, so let's call it what it is. You have a vested interest in who wins and loses. I have no problem with that.

Thanks for your mature reply. I do have a vested interest in who wins and loses, and I am definitely biased towards the Wildcats, but I have seen some officiating in this conference that is beyond explanation. I don't want every call to go the Cats way- I want fair, timely, correct calls. I know this is a lot to ask for, but I think there is room for improvement in the PAC 10.

Originally posted by icallfouls
The specific calls you are referring to have all gone against your beloved 'cats, and one happened nearly 10 years ago! Not only that, you reference an article from the campus daily paper, whose purpose is to validate the fans of UA. I would bet a PAC 10 game fee, better yet, dinner out for you and your significant other, that the UCLA daily paper had nothing to say about the call in question.

The call from '95 was posted to establish some history of poor officiating in the PAC 10. If I could post an article from a neutral media source I would, but everyone brings their own subjectivity to the table. What confuses me is this- I know refs have tough jobs, and I know they have to be smart and prove themselves to ref at the D1 level. Some of these calls must be talked about by other officials, some of these bad/missed/late calls must be at least hushed about between officials. When a player misses a defensive assignment or a layup, a teammate will tell him, "don't forget to switch next time," or, "go for the dunk instead." Do officials talk after the game, and say, "you know, that travelling call on Mustafa Shakur in the Stanford game was wrong, and it cost Arizona two points. Then, we called goal tending on Hassan Adams that was clearly wrong, and that put 2 on the board for Stanford. That was a close game already, and we may have not done a very good job officiating that game."

Originally posted by icallfouls
With all that said, if your intent is to see things done better, I have plenty of gear I will donate to your ref'ing career. BTW, you probably won't be allowed to work any UA games since you are an alum.

If I decide to be a ref, I'll hold you to that. Hopefully I can find some other constructive, mature avenue in which to explore change, if not cause it.

[wildcatman]

This is what I'm talking about- there is a problem in the PAC 10, but nothing is being done about it. Henry Bibby, head coach for USC, was quoted in the Charleston Post & Courier:

Bibby has decided to stop talking about the officiating.

"I'm done with that," he said Monday. "It basically falls on deaf ears and I'm done. I'm moving on. The pieces fall where they may."

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.charleston.net/stories/01...ss046529.shtml

For those questioning the validity of my previous statements, please note this is a non-Wildcat related topic from a non-Wildcat related publication.

[Adam]

Wildcat,
Big Ten fans think the Big Ten has the worst officiating. Big Twelve fans think the Big 12 has the worst officiating. It's no surprise to me to see that the Pac-10 fans think the same way about their own refs. The point is that you are going to always notice more "bad" calls when they go against your team.

Finally, your snippet about OBannon is either poorly written or reflects a very bad understanding of the rules on the part of the author. The ball does not need to go in before time expires, it needs only be release. So, your "bad call" needs either clarified or replaced to keep your point alive.

Your Quixotic quest to improve college officiating is humorous. Watch out for the windmills.

[Adam]

There's nothing objective in the Bibby comments. A losing coach thinks he got screwed by the refs. Not exactly something Pac10 coaches have a patent on. Most coaches don't understand officiating any better than you do, and when they blame the refs for losing, they pretty much show their colors. Looks like Bibby is a chronic whiner in this regard, sort of like that women's coach from Connecticut.

[ChuckElias]

Yawn. Why did anybody try to respond seriously to this thread?

[Adam]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Yawn. Why did anybody try to respond seriously to this thread?

Boredom

[williebfree]

icallfouls's posting is darn near verbatim of my sentiments as I read through the lengthy list of responses.

wildcatman

I do not want this to seem like a personal attack, because I do not believe in that method of getting a point across. I prefer that you view my following observation as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism:

Unless you have worn the stripes and whistle, invested hours of rules study, and spent your money to participate in officiating clinics, it is extremely difficult to feel that you can make anything but a subjective (uninformed) assessment of PAC-10 officiating. Are you willing to subject yourself to the same rigorous demand to be considered a candidate as a PAC-10 official before you pass judgement on the officials’ performance, good or bad?

If you are relying on the media (TV, radio, print, et al) as a resource to support your position, most of us will tell you that is a faulted approach because they demonstrate the same uninformed basis in making their assessments of officiating.

To be honest with you, I do not feel qualified to publicly pass judgement on the PAC-10 officials. Additionally, I chose to honor the decorum of respect that should be demonstrated for all officials who have been assigned to work the game, by people in positions of responsibility to do so.


MY final observation: Officials enter the court with the attitude that they want the game played within the rules. Their responsibility is to ensure that it is played that way. Officials do not care who wins the game.

[wildcatman]

Listen guys, I've seen plenty of threads in here about mistakes, or what to do about a questionable call, so you know that there is some validity to my comments. I know that I am one of many who are frustrated with officiating, and I'm trying to present this in a constructive fashion, unlike some of the replies in this thread by "senior" members of this forum. I just want to know why there aren't any changes, or why more isn't done to atone for bad officiating. I posted the Bibby comment because the checks on officiating seem toothless- Bibby (and all the other coaches and players) can't say anything about the officials or the officiating. If I get bad service at a restaurant, I can do something about it. Lute Olson can lose a game at Stanford because of poor performing officials, but he can't do anything but tell his players to play harder and score more points so officials won't have as much as an affect.

[Adam]

If it makes you feel better, officials do get evaluated and reprimanded when necessary. You just don't hear about it. I think the reasons for that are obvious.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Yawn. Why did anybody try to respond seriously to this thread?

Yeah, like anybody's gonna change fanboy's mind. Waste of time.

[Adam]

I need all the exercise I can get, even if it's an exercise in futility.

[wildcatman]

Originally posted by williebfree
icallfouls's posting is darn near verbatim of my sentiments as I read through the lengthy list of responses.

wildcatman

I do not want this to seem like a personal attack, because I do not believe in that method of getting a point across. I prefer that you view my following observation as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism:

Unless you have worn the stripes and whistle, invested hours of rules study, and spent your money to participate in officiating clinics, it is extremely difficult to feel that you can make anything but a subjective (uninformed) assessment of PAC-10 officiating. Are you willing to subject yourself to the same rigorous demand to be considered a candidate as a PAC-10 official before you pass judgement on the officials’ performance, good or bad?

If you are relying on the media (TV, radio, print, et al) as a resource to support your position, most of us will tell you that is a faulted approach because they demonstrate the same uninformed basis in making their assessments of officiating.

To be honest with you, I do not feel qualified to publicly pass judgement on the PAC-10 officials. Additionally, I chose to honor the decorum of respect that should be demonstrated for all officials who have been assigned to work the game, by people in positions of responsibility to do so.


MY final observation: Officials enter the court with the attitude that they want the game played within the rules. Their responsibility is to ensure that it is played that way. Officials do not care who wins the game.

Great post. I know most of my argument is based on my own subjectivity, but I think if you saw some of the officiating I was referring to you would understand my frustration. I understand there are going to be some bad calls every now and then, but where there's smoke there's fire, and if enough "biased" media say something, maybe something really is wrong.

I honestly mean no offense. I understand that being an official at any level is a heavy task, and I make no assumptions that I could do it better. I just think at the D1 level, there should be better officiating. I expect more from professionals, and some of you do too- here's another thread about questionable PAC 10 officiating:

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/12355

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by wildcatman
This is what I'm talking about- there is a problem in the PAC 10, but nothing is being done about it. Henry Bibby, head coach for USC, was quoted in the Charleston Post & Courier:

Bibby has decided to stop talking about the officiating.

"I'm done with that," he said Monday. "It basically falls on deaf ears and I'm done. I'm moving on. The pieces fall where they may."

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.charleston.net/stories/01...ss046529.shtml

For those questioning the validity of my previous statements, please note this is a non-Wildcat related topic from a non-Wildcat related publication.

Let's see you quote your school paper,then a coach that is famous for being one of the biggest whiners in the world.

Let me try to be constructive here,you asked about the quality of officiating in the Pac 10 and EVERY official on here that IS knowledgeable of rules and how to apply them has told you that the Pac 10 guys are on par with other conferences.Yet you keep quoting fans,coaches and media
who DO NOT KNOW about the rules.Every time I watch a game on TV I hear them saying,"They were reaching in," or,"That is not a charge,his feet were not on the floor." Well guess
what,there is no foul for reaching in and your feet do not need to be on the floor to draw a charge.

Just because we are not agreeing with your biased stance,does not mean we are wrong about the officiating in the Pac 10.