7th/10th foul - Page 2

DJ · #16 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 12:22pm

If I have competent bench personal I usually have little to worrry about but when it comes to some bench personal I have as much confidence in their abilities as they do in mine!! Thus, the only numbers I want to have to worry about are the 7 and the 10. Many bench personal will signal you the bonus or two shot sign as you are giving your signal and this is much appreciated. But again this is the exception and not the rule.

Rich · #17 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
I also think it would be good procedure to put the bonus lights on after the 6th foul and the ball has been inbounded so again a quick glance and everyone in the gym will know the procedure for the 7th foul.

I think you are making a big mistake if you are relying on the scoreboard to tell you when there's a bonus situation. I mean, with the bonus lights.

To be honest, I don't worry about keeping track of the fouls most of the time. Most of the time the team fouls are correct on the board and I know when it says 6 (or 9) that something is going to be different on the next foul. Knowing we're shooting and getting the shooter on 7 is the most crucial thing.

Bonus light on the scoreboard? I don't care. Possession arrow on the scoreboard? Care even less. I only care about the number of fouls on the board (and in the book) and what the arrow on the TABLE says.

Last night working with a partner I never worked with before. On the sixth foul (which I called) I came out to assume the trail position tableside (2-man varsity in my neck of the woods). After noting it was the sixth foul, I took the time to step in and get my partner's attention and say, "Next one's bonus." How hard is that?

--Rich

DJ · #18 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 01:04pm

All the posts seem to be on how to remind or remember that the next foul will be the 7th or the 10th. Why not put it on the board and then we don't have to be reminded that it is the 6th and the next will be the 7th? That is my point. Simplify the process and then you don't have to be remember or be reminded.

bob jenkins · #19 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
All the posts seem to be on how to remind or remember that the next foul will be the 7th or the 10th. Why not put it on the board and then we don't have to be reminded that it is the 6th and the next will be the 7th? That is my point. Simplify the process and then you don't have to be remember or be reminded.

By the time you look at the board, you will (or might) have forgotten who your shooter is. That's why we (need to) know ahead of time.

Rich · #20 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
All the posts seem to be on how to remind or remember that the next foul will be the 7th or the 10th. Why not put it on the board and then we don't have to be reminded that it is the 6th and the next will be the 7th? That is my point. Simplify the process and then you don't have to be remember or be reminded.

Because you and your partner are communicating. I rarely NEED to be reminded, but it is important to communicate in order to avoid te one time in a hundred when you might get distracted and miss that a foul is the team's seventh.

Once my partner calls that seventh foul, I'm getting the shooter and getting the players lined up for foul shots. I don't need a scoreboard for that, and neither should anyone else.

I don't count on the table personnel telling me that we're in a bonus situation. By the time my partner reports we're already lined up.

--Rich

JRutledge · #21 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
All the posts seem to be on how to remind or remember that the next foul will be the 7th or the 10th. Why not put it on the board and then we don't have to be reminded that it is the 6th and the next will be the 7th? That is my point. Simplify the process and then you don't have to be remember or be reminded.

Because we will have some coach or official thinking we missed a FT opportunity and it will cause more confusion. You should be aware anyway what is on that board to begin with. Just make a habit to look at the scoreboard more often. Especially with the time and sometimes the score. Because if something on it is wrong, it will and has caused problems.

Peace

eyezen · #22 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
All the posts seem to be on how to remind or remember that the next foul will be the 7th or the 10th. Why not put it on the board and then we don't have to be reminded that it is the 6th and the next will be the 7th? That is my point. Simplify the process and then you don't have to be remember or be reminded.

My response is...rely on the bonus lights, the situation you descibe is exactly why they are there. Whether an official chooses to use rely on that information is up to them.

rainmaker · #23 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
If I have competent bench personal...
but when it comes to some bench personal...
Many bench personal ...

Just for the record, and no big deal, but the people who run the clock and keep the book are TABLE personnel. The bench people are the players who aren't playing at the moment and the assistant howler monkeys, and trainers, etc.

DJ · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 02:15pm

Bob, forget who the shooter is? I've never been there and done that!!

DJ · #25 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 02:28pm

Thanks for all the discussion on table pesonal, remembering and reminding myself and my partner is it the 6th or the 7th, the 9th or the 10th foul. I guess I will just keep doing it the way we have been doing it until someone comes up with a better way! Maybe it is the old age setting in because it seems like it is getting harder and harder to remember to remind!

footlocker · #26 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 03:05pm

eyezyn,

Buzz subs in too, huh. Do you hit the horn, with pride, even though you know the official has seen the sub and is waiving him in?

I hate when tables do that. If I am already waiving him in, I obviously don't need the stinking horn.

eyezen · #27 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by footlocker
eyezyn,

Buzz subs in too, huh. Do you hit the horn, with pride, even though you know the official has seen the sub and is waiving him in?

I hate when tables do that. If I am already waiving him in, I obviously don't need the stinking horn.

fOotlkR,

Pride?? What's that got to do with anything. I didn't say anything about pride did I? I buzz the horn so that the players on the floor know a sub is coming in and for the kid who's been sitting on the floor uderneath the table daydreaming or talking to his mom in the stands even though said official knows he's there and waving him might actually get a clue "hey they're buzzing me in"

Hell you know you got a foul, why do we need to hear a stinking wistle???

You might not need the stinking horn, but the kids still do.

Now, without being condescending...I buzz them in because when the horn goes off everyone stops and finds out what going on.

BTW its eyezen, one y only thanks.

DJ · #28 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 05:11pm

I guess I had also forgotten that the clock still said 9 fouls after we had a timeout. Which may or may not have been the reason we shot a one and one instead of the two shot foul we should have shot which then resulted in our correctable error. My partner said he glanced at the 9 on the clock when I signaled a one and one. I didn't realize there had been a timeout until after I had talked about the correctable error with another person who had been at the game. Again, concentration is the key to prevention of mistakes like this along with great table personal. So in this case advancing from the 9th to the 10th foul may or may not have prevented this scenario.

rotationslim · #29 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 06:45pm

I wonder why there is not a handheld device for basketball referees to keep track of game stuff, much like the ball strike counter that umpires use. I bet you could design something that could keep track of posession, team fouls, and individual fouls.

How about this: a program for your palm, with all of above, and when you call a foul you pull it out and mark it off. Keep it in your back pocket!

Or what about just keeping it on a small paper notebook with a pen. The times when you need to record stuff would be a dead ball... why not?

Obviously that isn't needed for high level ball, but why not for JV/rec/intermural? Clearly it would be more reliable than questionable scoring tables?

cmathews · #30 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 07:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
Bob, forget who the shooter is? I've never been there and done that!!

seriously NEVER??? not even once??? I think you are the only official I have ever talked to that can make this claim...congrats