double dribble?

[footlocker]

We had this situation in our JV game last night.

My partner is coming from Lead to Trail as home team brings the ball upcourt. There is some pressure on A1 in the backcourt. A1 takes the ball, while dribbling, and passes the ball (with one hand) by pushing it towards another player. (This pass was obvious, but the ball did not come to rest in his hand.) The player he passed to (A2) was not expecting it and took off. A1 runs after his own pass and recovers it with a bat to the floor where he continues his dribble.

I wasn't sure about the call. My partner whistled the double dribble. We looked at the rulebook 9-5-3 & 4-15. Does the dribble end when a player passes the rock? Is this a double dribble or legal play?

Help me out with rule interpretation here. One varsity official said it should have been a no call, the other was not sure.

[Edited by footlocker on Feb 4th, 2004 at 11:46 AM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by footlocker
We had this situation in our JV game last night.

My partner is coming from Lead to Trail as home team brings the ball upcourt. There is some pressure on A1 in the backcourt. A1 takes the ball, while dribbling, and passes the ball (with one hand) by pushing it towards another player. (This pass was obvious, but the ball did not come to rest in his hand.) The player he passed to (A2) was not expecting it and took off. A1 runs after his own pass and recovers it with a bat to the floor where he continues his dribble.

I wasn't sure about the call. My partner whistled the double dribble. We looked at the rulebook 9-5-3 & 4-15. Does the dribble end when a player passes the rock? Is this a double dribble or legal play?

Help me out with rule interpretation here. One varsity official said it should have been a no call, the other was not sure.

Seems like just another dribble to me the way I read it.

[Adam]

Think about it this way. Would the action have warranted a double dribble had A2 never been there and the pass intent not been so obvious? If it's a dribble pass (player never really relinquishes dribble) as you suggest by saying it never came to rest, then I'm thinking a nocall here. It seems like an interrupted dribble to me.

Adam

[Jurassic Referee]

Legal play. The dribble did not end under any of the provisions of R4-15-4. Call it an interrupted dribble, as per R4-15-5.

[RefRx]

Since the dribble did not end by definition sounds like A1 id a heads up play

[Board28'er]

I agree with the other replies. It sounds like an interrupted dribble, and therefore would be a no call.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by footlocker
A1 takes the ball, while dribbling, and passes the ball (with one hand) by pushing it towards another player. The player he passed to (A2) was not expecting it and took off. A1 runs after his own pass and recovers it with a bat to the floor where he continues his dribble.

Ok, so we have a dribble by A1, then we have a bat by A1 toward another player, then we have another bat by A1, which bounces to the floor.

Seems to me that there is one piece of information missing here. What happened between the two bats? If the ball touched the floor between the two bats, then the play is legal. But if A1 batted the ball into the air towards A2 and then batted it again before it touched the ground, we have a violation. (FED 4-15-2 "ART. 2 . . . During a dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hand(s).)


I agree that the original post sounds like it was probably a bounce pass from A1 toward A2, but if not, then we have a problem.

[DJ]

You can fumble, dribble, fumble but you can't dribble, fumble dribble so apply it to this situation and come up with your ruling!! This little saying helps to summarize any interpetations.

[ChuckElias]

DJ, that saying may be true, but it doesn't apply here. There's no fumble. There's a dribble and a bat (controlled tap). Since the dribble didn't end with the bat, he may continue to dribble under certain circumstances.

[Adam]

You can't fumble during a dribble. If you lose control, it's an interupted dribble, not a fumble.

[DJ]

Can a bat be a part of a dribble? Or is it just a dribble? The official has to determine if it is a dribble, an interupted dribble , a fumble or a pass. I don't see how it can be more than one. I can't see how an interupted dribble could be intentional and then be called a pass and finally an extension of his dribble? If he intentionally interupted his dribble I would lean in the direction of a double dribble. I think he made a mistake and now should lose his right to dribble again because he intentionally interupted his dribble. Are not the rules written to reward good play? He just made a bad pass and his reward will be a chance to dribble again?Just my humble opinion.

[footlocker]

Does a dribble end when a player passes the ball?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by DJ
Can a bat be a part of a dribble?

Sure can. A "bat" is part of the definition of a dribble in Rule 4-15-1 & 2. There's no rule prohibiting a player from intentionally interrupting their dribble with a bat.

Dribble-bat-dribble has always been legal, as long as the dribble isn't ended, and the player doesn't touch the bat until it hits the floor again.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by footlocker
Does a dribble end when a player passes the ball?

Depends on what he does prior to passing it.

[Adam]

Show me where a pass, by itself, ends a dribble, and I'll reconsider. You'll of course also need to show me a rule-book definition of a pass. Dribble passes do not end the dribble, as far as I'm concerned. There's no rule to back that up.