Cussing at official

[lightenup]

I think that we are getting away from the original statement. In the original post, the profanity was directed at the official. I don't see how any official could let this go. If he is saying it to himself because he messed up, maybe. But I don't care if it is under his breath. If it is towards the official, you T him up.

[Rich]

Originally posted by PS2Man

I think you are scrambling the issues.

You have the right to do what you feel is best. But if I called a T for an action when a player cursed at themself, I would have some problems to deal with. Especially at the varsity and college levels. All I have ever said was make a decision based on context. I never said it was OK to curse the official out. Profanity is prohibited, but so is handchecking. Both have a context to what is going on in the game. Calling a handcheck when a player is not trying to go to the basket is just as bad as calling profanity on a player for using language to themself. That is just my opinion.

I called my first technical of the season on Saturday night -- girls game where I'm trail and partner calls a foul on this girl. She comes out of the lane, towards me, and says (loud enough for me to hear and visible to anyone who can read lips or probably can't read them that well), "WTF was that?"

Whack.

Look, I have left lots of frustrated "profanity" go over the years, but when this crap is directed at the official or his calls, it's getting penalized in my games. Even when I've had supervisors/assignors -- I've never had to explain a technical, but I have had to explain why I DIDN'T give one. And if someone did ask me to explain, I would simply say that I don't tolerate bad sportsmanship, do you?

F you? I don't care if the kid's back is turned -- if I know he said it and it was directed towards me, it's a flagrant technical foul. End of story.

[Dan_ref]

There seems to be something interesting going on here. I aint gonna read this entire thread again but I don't think ANYONE said to ignore an f bomb directed at an official, and I know for sure *I* didn't say it. Yet here we all are, bravely stepping up to the plate and jutting out our chests (a lot like that Janet Jackson thing ) proclaiming "Not in my game!" and going on about the general decay of society.

This is not all that complicated. A player says "f*** you" then take him. No ifs ands or buts, not a big deal. A player misses a break away layup in front of 300 people and mutters f*** to no one in particular then *I*, for one, will ignore it. That is how I choose to handle it, not a big deal.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


There seems to be something interesting going on here. I aint gonna read this entire thread again but I don't think ANYONE said to ignore an f bomb directed at an official, and I know for sure *I* didn't say it. Yet here we all are, bravely stepping up to the plate and jutting out our chests (a lot like that Janet Jackson thing ) proclaiming "Not in my game!" and going on about the general decay of society.

This is not all that complicated. A player says "f*** you" then take him. No ifs ands or buts, not a big deal. A player misses a break away layup in front of 300 people and mutters f*** to no one in particular then *I*, for one, will ignore it. That is how I choose to handle it, not a big deal.

Dan,

Read the original post again. He said F U after a travel call.

I don't jut my chest or anything else on a Monday morning.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Dan,

Read the original post again. He said F U after a travel call.

I don't jut my chest or anything else on a Monday morning.

Rich,

Read everything that follows the original post again.

***Edit to add:***

Rich, you might want to read everthing that follows THIS post as well.


[Edited by Dan_ref on Feb 2nd, 2004 at 11:44 AM]

[DJ]

Maybe, just maybe things are different where Dan_ref lives but where I come from we do not have to justify our postion because some high school kid said the "F" word in a game no matter where it is directed or who heard it . Our coaches expect a "T", the players expect it, the AD's expect it and our State Activities Association expects it. Maybe things are different where Dan lives but swearing is OK unless it is directed at somebody? Maybe where you live but not where I live and never the "F" word!! I can tell that you are not from around here!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by DJ
Maybe, just maybe things are different where Dan_ref lives but where I come from we do not have to justify our postion because some high school kid said the "F" word in a game no matter where it is directed or who heard it . Our coaches expect a "T", the players expect it, the AD's expect it and our State Activities Association expects it. Maybe things are different where Dan lives but swearing is OK unless it is directed at somebody? Maybe where you live but not where I live and never the "F" word!! I can tell that you are not from around here!

DJ, I am with you. F-bombs are a no no in my games whether they are directed at me or because they are mad about missing a layup. An F-bomb rates a flagrant technical foul each and everytime in my games, no matter what the sport. I substitute teach as a math and science teacher in the Toledo Pulbic Schools, and have had seventh grade girls tell me what to do, and they do not stay in my classroom any longer that it takes for me to write the dean's referral slip.

MTD, Sr.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by BradP
I would have tossed him in a heartbeat and if the coach actually said that I would have considered tossing him also... But I would only consider it and probably not toss the coach..

On wat grounds would you even consider tossing the coach. He expressed an opinion, you disagree. He doesn't let it go, you may ave a T. What in anything that the coach said initially would push you to a T, let alone an ejection?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DJ
Maybe, just maybe things are different where Dan_ref lives but where I come from we do not have to justify our postion because some high school kid said the "F" word in a game no matter where it is directed or who heard it . Our coaches expect a "T", the players expect it, the AD's expect it and our State Activities Association expects it. Maybe things are different where Dan lives but swearing is OK unless it is directed at somebody? Maybe where you live but not where I live and never the "F" word!! I can tell that you are not from around here!

This is why it is called, "in your area." What they do in your area, does not apply to someone in another area. What someone thinks about it, may not apply to you. If I am in some urban areas, I am going to have a different take on language as a whole as compared to a game in a more rural area. Not only is that common sense, that is good officiating. You have to officiate within the mores in your area. But never be surprised if a coach questions your judgment for something they did not hear or no one else heard. Maybe you do not have to justify if the F word is used, but they have to believe you first.

Peace

[DJ]

If at all possible if a coach has a question concerning anything concerning my officiating I will be willing to listen to him and if it is chronic or I don't agree I will give him the classic "One more time and I will..." That will always give him a choice. Let him make the choice. So if he does not consider swearing to be bad enough to warrant a technical then that is fine and he has a right to his opinion. Here I would say I disagree with what you are saying and if I here it "one more time" I will....! If I have never worked for him he will then probably learn that I mean what I say. If I as an official am going to say it then I have to be willing to back my word. Quite frankly, I could care less if I have to give a technical. I don't want to but I don't care if I do. I will do what I am hired to do. You are talking to a referree who gave a technical foul 30 seconds into a state championship game because of bad language by a coach and I received nothing but positive feedback because many people heard it and it was the right thing to do. There were no hard feelings and the rest of the game was a blast to work! If people condone swearing at the games that I work then they have no respect from me as an official and the people that are important to me as an official. i am strictly talking about games played by school age kids.

[DJ]

There is also something called "local interpetation" of the rules and a pure rules guy will have difficulty with this but things are different in different areas for many rules. I agree 100% with Rut.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Rich,

Read everything that follows the original post again.

***Edit to add:***

Rich, you might want to read everthing that follows THIS post as well.


[Edited by Dan_ref on Feb 2nd, 2004 at 11:44 AM]

Yup. Uh-huh. I see I was responding to the original, but should've read more carefully at the rest.

Flagrant technical if a kid f-bombs himself quietly after blowing a layup? I don't think so.

[DJ]

If I am standing there and I hear it, yes we will around here! What if there is a 5th or 6th grade player in the front row and you and he are the only ones to hear it? Maybe it doesn't matter but I think it does.

[DJ]

By no means do I advocate an ejection for the first swearing episode but I will be watching him carefully until he gets a handle on his emotions!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DJ
If people condone swearing at the games that I work then they have no respect from me as an official and the people that are important to me as an official. i am strictly talking about games played by school age kids.

Whether you have respect or not should not matter. I had a kid hit himself in the head with a helmet in a football game in the player's claim that one of the officials used "objectionalable" language toward this player. Everyone on this player's coaching staff said to my crew, "This is the nicest kid on the team. He would not do such a thing without a reason." Then the Principal said similar things and found it hard to believe the officials had to take action on this kid.

I think our point is to just "make it be there" and understand the context of the comments. If that does not matter to you, then so be it. But do not be surprised if you are questioned if everyone did not hear the words.

Peace