Been in trouble?

[Hawks Coach]

It all comes down to a couple of things.

1) Where are you in your career/experience level/rules knowledge, etc.? If you are really new, you can gain a lot here that you won't necessarily from other places. For one, these guys will put you straight into the book in most cases, rather than just giving you the knowledge of an old hand. And having tried to read the book with no guidance, I can say that it is not so intuitive at first. It becomes much easier with the frame of reference established here. and if you want to go other places for info, advice from this board (just like Ruts) will point you in appropriate directions. some come here without really understanding the value of camps, mentors, etc., and I have seen numerous threads that tell people to use these resources. Those people got a lot out of this board in addition to the info about rules and game situations.

2) What do you want from this board? I see a number of experienced officials that seem to value the exchange of ideas here. I see many new officials that come for guidance. I see some that people that want to push their opinion, and I fall into that category many times as well. I see some that have an axe to grind about a game, and they get zero benefit unless they open their mind. But even as I push forward an opinion, I definitely get insight here that I otherwise would not get. I simply hope to provide a viewpoint that might not otherwise come into play on a board that is mainly officials.

So from my perspective, this is clearly not the be-all and end-all of development for officials, but short of that, it can be what you want it to be.

[SMEngmann]

While I don't find this board nearly as helpful as a good mentor, it's a great place to go to get a variety of opinions and to discuss situations. I think the fact that there is no established pecking order here as there is in a regular association allows us to be exposed to many more points of view. Seeing the many ways that others would handle the situation allows you to analyze it much better, in my opinion, than if you get one guy's authoritative opinion: "this is how we will handle this." While the board isn't the only way or the best way to improve as an official, it certainly helps.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
As anything that you've ever read on this board gotten you trouble? Have you ever read an interpretation here, used it in a game, and all kinds of crap happened because of it?

I'm not even asking if what you were told was wrong. I'm looking for rules that you applied properly and it still got you in the "soup."

I think the only thing I've used off this baord that hurt, was the snappy comebacks. I haven't tried any of the really snappy ones, but I tried, in all seriousness, a couple different things that backfired. What I mean is, I found a good sentense that I thought would help improve a situation, and when I used it, it didn't help.

Okay, and now that I think about it, a couple of times, I've known rules cold, and ended up annoying partners, becuase they didn't know them.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Okay, and now that I think about it, a couple of times, I've known rules cold, and ended up annoying partners, becuase they didn't know them.

I have the same problem.

Only with coaches.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I have the same problem.

Only with coaches.

Sheez, that's every game! Last night, I called a backcourt violation -- easiest call all evening. Coach is going ballistic because he thinks she needs all three points in the backcourt before it's a violation. And he wonders why his girls never win...

[theboys]

I don't know how many coaches/fans lurk on the site, but I suspect there are quite a few. While the purpose of the site isn't to educate us howlers, its sure taught me a lot.

I used to be the kind of fan and coach you write about here ("over the back", "call it both ways", et al). After coming here and reading the rule books a couple of times, I find I rarely say anything about the officiating of a game.

And, y'know, the funny thing is, I think what I've learned more than anything, is how much judgment and perspective come into play when you make calls. Oh, and, how little you care about what I think. I mean, why waste my time hollering at you if you don't even care.

[theboys]

I'll tell you one thing I haven't learned, though - how to embed the dang smilies in the middle of a post. Can't find a reference to it in the rule book anywhere. (I wish I could put a smilie here.)

[just another ref]

Originally posted by theboys
I'll tell you one thing I haven't learned, though - how to embed the dang smilies in the middle of a post. (I wish I could put a smilie here.)

Coach, look on the bottom of this page and click on the word smilies. So simple, even a coach can do it.

[zebraman]

This board may not be as helpful as a personal mentor, but it's definitely a great asset. There have been a couple unusual scenarios posted here that later happened in a game to me. While it may not have changed the way I handled it, it sure was nice to have given some thought to it before it happened in my game.

Z

[Edited by zebraman on Jan 16th, 2004 at 08:47 AM]

[stan-MI]

The problem with boards like this is that some officials may use it as a substitute for studying the rule book and case book, and using common sense. There are many posters who give incorrect rules advice, and an official relying on that could get in trouble. An official who takes the time to study the rules on his own will realize that rules advice from posters like Jenkins or BktBallRef usually is pretty reliable. Guys like Mick seem to have a knack for managing coaches. Some posters, though, are way off base on rules or game management skills. If you believe everything you read on this board, you could get yourself into trouble.

I'm surprised, though, that a good official like BktBallRef went along with the people who blindly recommended calling an intentional foul every time the bench was yelling, "Foul!" Ignoring 40+ years of accepted practice at all levels of the game usually will get you into trouble.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by stan-MI
I'm surprised, though, that a good official like BktBallRef went along with the people who blindly recommended calling an intentional foul every time the bench was yelling, "Foul!" Ignoring 40+ years of accepted practice at all levels of the game usually will get you into trouble.

What BBR went with was either the word for word in the POE, or the interpretation of the POE on intentional fouls. POEs frequently happen because rules committees are trying to fix something they don't believe is being correctly enforced. I don' think the advice he got was strictly from this board, although I may be mistaken. I know that in my area, I saw refs call it precisely as BBR did during the year it was a POE. Not all, but some. Never seen it called in that manner since that year.

Also, since I am only 41 and I remember the intentional foul being put into the rules in my adult life, I don't believe that BBR ignored 40+ years of practice with respect to intentional fouls

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

What BBR went with was either the word for word in the POE, or the interpretation of the POE on intentional fouls. POEs frequently happen because rules committees are trying to fix something they don't believe is being correctly enforced. I don' think the advice he got was strictly from this board, although I may be mistaken. I know that in my area, I saw refs call it precisely as BBR did during the year it was a POE. Not all, but some. Never seen it called in that manner since that year.

Also, since I am only 41 and I remember the intentional foul being put into the rules in my adult life, I don't believe that BBR ignored 40+ years of practice with respect to intentional fouls

From the POE in the 2000/2001 rulebook- "Acts that must be deemed intentional include when coach/player says 'watch,we're going to foul'."

[RookieDude]

From the POE in the 2000/2001 rulebook- "Acts that must be deemed intentional include when coach/player says 'watch,we're going to foul'

A Veteran once told me:

If a Coach is yelling "Foul, Foul, Foul"...it is different than actually telling you he is going to foul. Therefore, you don't necessarily have to call the intentional foul.

Heck, it could be some kind of play..."Fowl, Fowl, Fowl" like "bird, bird, bird"...

RD

[Woodee]

What I like about this site are the checks and balances. NOONE can come here with something crazy without being questioned.

For the most part, everything is tied to the rulebook.

I'm in my 2nd year of reffing and have not met a fellow Ref in my association that knows about this site. If they only knew!!!!

Personally this site has been the most important tool for me!

THANKS!!!!

[davidw]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
It all comes down to a couple of things.

1) Where are you in your career/experience level/rules knowledge, etc.? If you are really new, you can gain a lot here that you won't necessarily from other places. For one, these guys will put you straight into the book in most cases, rather than just giving you the knowledge of an old hand. And having tried to read the book with no guidance, I can say that it is not so intuitive at first. It becomes much easier with the frame of reference established here. and if you want to go other places for info, advice from this board (just like Ruts) will point you in appropriate directions. some come here without really understanding the value of camps, mentors, etc., and I have seen numerous threads that tell people to use these resources. Those people got a lot out of this board in addition to the info about rules and game situations.

2) What do you want from this board? I see a number of experienced officials that seem to value the exchange of ideas here. I see many new officials that come for guidance. I see some that people that want to push their opinion, and I fall into that category many times as well. I see some that have an axe to grind about a game, and they get zero benefit unless they open their mind. But even as I push forward an opinion, I definitely get insight here that I otherwise would not get. I simply hope to provide a viewpoint that might not otherwise come into play on a board that is mainly officials.

So from my perspective, this is clearly not the be-all and end-all of development for officials, but short of that, it can be what you want it to be.

And Coach, as expressed before, we really appreciate this other viewpoint. Please keep it up.