Been in trouble?

[BktBallRef]

I was just thinking about how busy this forum is, especially during this time of year. There are over 25 threads that are active just today. I read a lot of boards but none are as active at this.

In any case, it got me thinking. There's a lot of information being passed. As anything that you've ever read on this board gotten you trouble? Have you ever read an interpretation here, used it in a game, and all kinds of crap happened because of it?

I'm not even asking if what you were told was wrong. I'm looking for rules that you applied properly and it still got you in the "soup."

[BktBallRef]

Okay, I'll start, just to give everyone an idea about what I'm talking about.

We've discussed many times that an intentional foul should be called if a coach is yelling "Foul him! Foul him!" We were even told that at our state rules clinic this year. However, it just isn't accepted in my area. It's discussed at clinics and it happens at games and it just isn't called.

When it was a POE about 4 years ago, I made this call, and caught all kinds of hell for it. It was later suggested that I not make it again. I haven't based solely on the coach's words alone. I rpobably never will unless it becomes consistent among other officials.

[garote]

No... but I used a comeback from this board last night that helped me quiet a coach without either of us losing our tempers....

Thanks to all for your input. Everyday I'm getting a little better(fans don't think so, but fans know stats we know rules)

[Mregor]

I've have had discussions here regarding the OOB play scenarios where the player directs the ball inbounds as he's approaching the OOB line and never agreed with the interpretation that it was an interrupted dribble. I was finally swayed since it was pretty overwhelming against me. I posed the question to our state rules interpreter just the other day and was told an interrupted dribble cannot be an intentional act that it must be a fumble or miscue of some sort, which is the way I always understood it until the discussions here. Hasn't happened in a game but my question was directly due to questions on here that changed my opinion of how to rule on the play.

Mregor

[JRutledge]

Now I will say that I cannot think of anything that I did in a game directly off of something that I read here. But I have asked other officials that have done things and a resounding, "THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD DO OR CALL THAT!!!"

I even had an extensive conversation with a very well thought of official and basically dismissed this board and others like it because of some of the things that are talked about here. And that person got on me about even listening to many that take positions on this board.

So yes I come here and enjoy many of the discussions that we have. But I have to admit that I always filter stuff that people say to an "area thing" or what might work for them, will not work for me philosophy.

Peace

[davidw]

Originally posted by garote
No... but I used a comeback from this board last night that helped me quiet a coach without either of us losing our tempers....

Thanks to all for your input. Everyday I'm getting a little better(fans don't think so, but fans know stats we know rules)

Naturally, curious--what was it you used?

[davidw]

Originally posted by JRutledge
...

I even had an extensive conversation with a very well thought of official and basically dismissed this board and others like it because of some of the things that are talked about here. And that person got on me about even listening to many that take positions on this board.

So this 'well thought of official' would recommend what (?) for officials to improve themselves, nothing? Did he offer some alternatives?

I like your approach JR, which I think most of us do, which is to use some pretty good 'filters' many times. I wish we had this forum available in my early years. Just another tool to use, which, like any other tool can be used properly or not.

[garote]

I used the "I only call the fouls not count them." When she had 5 vs 1 on the count....She was only up by 20 at the point of this conversation

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by davidw
So this 'well thought of official' would recommend what (?) for officials to improve themselves, nothing? Did he offer some alternatives?

Most officials I know never come here or to any internet site to become a better official. Let us make that clear. But that is what camps, publications, officiating socials, talking to your mentor, watching veteran officials, watching less experienced officials, watching TV games are all for. I personally do not know many officials that have reached the "big time" did so by coming here on their way to the top. He did not suggest that himself, but if others learned officiating by other sources, I am sure we all could do it if we had to. But most of the things I have learned in officiating, had nothing to do with this board. And I have been on the internet almost as long as my career.[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by davidw

I like your approach JR, which I think most of us do, which is to use some pretty good 'filters' many times. I wish we had this forum available in my early years. Just another tool to use, which, like any other tool can be used properly or not.

I agree this is a great place. But I cannot go back to my assignors or fellow officials and associations and reference people here that have no credibility in the area I live. Or with all due respect those here that live in my back yard, when they (including myself here) do not have the same level of respect and admiration that certain officials do where I live. I would hope anyone that reads my post does not go back to their place and quote me on what it takes to officiate. You might get shot or hung like I would if I did the same. But this can be a great place to vent, see what guys across the country are doing and see if others agree with your interpretation of the rules and mechanics, but you still have to filter that information.

Peace

[davidw]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Most officials I know never come here or to any internet site to become a better official. Let us make that clear. But that is what camps, publications, officiating socials, talking to your mentor, watching veteran officials, watching less experienced officials, watching TV games are all for.

Rut, you've included some suggestions that could easily (it seems to me) be included with listing this discussion board. But you exclude it. In other words: "...camps, publications, officiating socials, talking to your mentor,watching vets, watching less exper. off., watching tv, ..." It seems one could easily have listed: 'participating in relevant discussion boards' with your list and it would fit in just as well as officiating socials and watching tv ballgames. It just seemed like such a blanket statement to say most officials don't come here to become a better official.

It seems to me to be just another tool, certainly not a primary one but nevertheless, another one and certainly one to be use for what it's worth--no more.

I've also seen many posts here of officials asking for advice on how to 'become a better official'. With many replies to those requests, some as I recall by you.

[Edited by davidw on Jan 15th, 2004 at 01:24 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by davidw

It seems to me to be just another tool, certainly not a primary one but nevertheless, another one and certainly one to be use for what it's worth--no more.

Of course it is just a tool. But just because you have a screwdriver in the toolbox, does not mean you can never use a wrench every now and then. You might need the wrench and hammer more.

Originally posted by davidw

I've also seen many posts here of officials asking for advice on how to 'become a better official'. With many replies to those requests, some as I recall by you.

Yes I have. But I also hope and try to direct those to people in their area. We are just giving advice, it is up to their association or mentors to truely mold them into good officials. All I feel we can do here is point them in the right direction. But that does not mean that we can drive them there ourselves.

Peace

[davidw]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Of course it is just a tool. But just because you have a screwdriver in the toolbox, does not mean you can never use a wrench every now and then. You might need the wrench and hammer more.

Yes I have. But I also hope and try to direct those to people in their area. We are just giving advice, it is up to their association or mentors to truely mold them into good officials. All I feel we can do here is point them in the right direction. But that does not mean that we can drive them there ourselves.

Peace

I guess it is an 'issue' with me because I thought that your statement about wanting to be very 'clear' this was not a place to become a better official, may give the wrong impression to some officials who come here to learn and to become better. I completely agree that the final product (a better official) is achieved at a more local level. The pointing in the right direction can be huge--for some. I thought you discounted some of the learning merits of this site a little too much is all.

[BktBallRef]

One of the best things about discussion boards is that you talk with individuals who have experiences that you haven't had. That can be a tremendous help when you're faced with a similiar issue. It's basically a "virtual association meeting." Many officials, like mick for example, do not have the opportunity to attend meetings and clinics with fellow officials. They don't have the opportunity to discuss what happened in someone's game or dissect a ruling or play. Also, a big plus is that you can have your virtual lacoal clinic any time you want to. Just sit down at the computer.

Many of the officials who avoid these boards could gain a lot from them, like the 2 state interpreters in Dubby's state, who don't understand 10-2-2.

[cmathews]

I don't know that I can recall a direct correlation from this board to the floor. I do however take the discussions we have here to some of the guys I work with. I even bring some things up in the local meeting, mostly at the local watering hole meeting after the meeting at the school . It is a super area to get interps from others and like rut said and we all know, you have to do what your assignor/commissioner says....and I even found out that sometimes they are the same interpretation, like the injured player situation.....damn I still hate that LOL

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by davidw


I guess it is an 'issue' with me because I thought that your statement about wanting to be very 'clear' this was not a place to become a better official, may give the wrong impression to some officials who come here to learn and to become better.

Honestly David, it can and it can't. It just comes down to how you use it.

Originally posted by davidw

I completely agree that the final product (a better official) is achieved at a more local level. The pointing in the right direction can be huge--for some. I thought you discounted some of the learning merits of this site a little too much is all.

David, it does not matter what Tony, mick, Mark(Sr), JR, Rut or Chuck and Yaw says, if none of us live in the area the person reading our posts does or if they do not belong to the same association that we do. Tony is a State Final Official, but honestly that means nothing in my area. Hell, depending on who is a State Final official in my state, they might not have the general respect and admiration for those that are in my state. It is a great accomplishment, but you have to look at the bigger picture. There are officials that have no titles or no "state" accomplishments and are much more accomplished and respected than those that are State Rules Interpreters and State Clinicians. If someone reads my posts or what people say about me, you might think I am the most hated official on the internet. Go outside of the board and talk to guys that have worked with me, you would never get that impression at all. This coming year I will speak at a baseball clinic, football clinic and basketball clinic all in 2004. I will speak at a basketball meeting in a couple of weeks and am a board member in football for the second term. But listen to folks here, I am clueless and stupid and any other name that folks come up with. But I would not have been asked to help run associations and speak at clinics that only very well respected officials (not including myself, but what I have seen). Even Tony had someone debating what he was saying and he has accomplished much more than most of us have. That is why I say you have to take everything here and filter it. And I would say 95% of what I post here, comes from others that taught me and guided me off this board. Great place to learn, but it might not apply to everyone.

Peace