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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 02:54am
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Has everyone except me adopted an advantage/disadvantage philosophy to travel calls? It seems that I see it more and more, mainly on a catch on the wing. The player moves one foot and then the other. It looks like some of them make a point of it. No call. I'm not talking fractions of an inch, but "He had to see that!" movement. Is the idea he's not going anywhere, no advantage, play on? Or is it just me? again
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 09:08am
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Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
Has everyone except me adopted an advantage/disadvantage philosophy to travel calls?
I miss some, pass some, but never guess 'em.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 02:43pm
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I would encourage you not to take the

approach you are suggesting, unless it's frosh girls, etc..

Good footwork is the heart and soul of real basketball. Iverson is remarkably righteous that way - it can be done. It's a challenge to see the many ways of traveling. Don't back off.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 03:12pm
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I have adopted the adv/disadv. view of traveling.

Two days ago, I'm trail and the ball is passed to a player on the wing. The player, the coach and myself form a nice little triangle. He receives the pass with no pressure and takes two little steps backwards. The coach says in my ear: "He traveled". But to me there was no advantage: no drive, no shot.

This afternoon, we had a player receive a pass in her backcourt when a defender jumps in front of her. She shuffles her feet. Tweet, traveling.

I have incorporated that in my game with a fair amount of success. Even a fairly "old" ref in my zone who was adamant that traveling should always be called (no matter what) is changing his tune a bit.

Also in FIBA, adv/disadv is encouraged for fouls AND violations. So we have the rulebook to back us up. My games are divided between FIBA rules (HS) and NCAA rules (College)


Jay


[Edited by Jay R on Jan 10th, 2004 at 02:14 PM]
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 09:13pm
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In a varsity game I would call the travel every single time.

As JTR said, if it's a Frosh-G game I might use more of a adv/disadv philosophy. Nobody came to the game to hear me call 110 traveling violations (fans just don't know how to appreciate a great traveling signal ), so I tend to pass on a minor shuffle of the feet when there is obviously no advantage gained.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 09:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Burns
In a varsity game I would call the travel every single time.

As JTR said, if it's a Frosh-G game I might use more of a adv/disadv philosophy. Nobody came to the game to hear me call 110 traveling violations (fans just don't know how to appreciate a great traveling signal ), so I tend to pass on a minor shuffle of the feet when there is obviously no advantage gained.
Guess what chirp you will hear from the coach of the less coordinated team at the middle school - freshman level game?

Hint: It gets increasingly louder and more insistent (and annoying) as the coach's team falls further behind.


To address the original posting... adv/disadv at middle school. By the book at HS level.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 09:57pm
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Men's Juco game this afternoon. 1st half, A1 catches the ball just outside the 3-point arc with both feet on the floor. A1 hops (jumps off both feet and lands left foot, right foot) about 6 inches to the right. Tweet! I call the travel. The kid looks at me like he's never even heard of a travel.

2nd half, A1 catches the ball outside the 3-point arc. A1 then steps forward with his right foot, followed immediately by the left foot. Tweet! I call the travel.

This time the coach wants to know what's up. "Not on the shot! Not on the shot!" Like it's ok to travel if you're "stepping into" the shot. He then demonstrates the correct technique by pretending to catch the ball, taking 2 steps and saying "One, two!" Like, "See, it's the 1-2 method!" I said, "Coach, that's an NBA rule. Not college." Gave him a shrug. He was baffled. I mean absolutely flabbergasted.

But that play gets passed on so much that a lot (maybe most) coaches and players just assume it's legal. Not in my game. Oh well.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 10:17pm
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Over the last couple of years a misconception has been spreading through the basketball officiating world that advantage/disadvantage applies to violations (3 seconds is the exception). Advantage/disadvantage applies to fouls.

A travel is a travel is a travel; B1 scores and A1 steps onto the court before releasing the ball on the throw-in is a violation is a violation is violation. The NCAA is even on record concerning this. But the reality is that we officiate to the level of play.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 10:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A travel is a travel is a travel; B1 scores and A1 steps onto the court before releasing the ball on the throw-in is a violation is a violation is violation. The NCAA is even on record concerning this.
[/B]
The FED is on record also for the same violation--casebook play 9.2.5. As per 9.2.5COMMENT- "Whether or not there was defensive pressure or whether or not stepping on the court was inadvertant, it is a violation and no judgement is required in making the call".
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 10:47pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Over the last couple of years a misconception has been spreading through the basketball officiating world that advantage/disadvantage applies to violations (3 seconds is the exception). Advantage/disadvantage applies to fouls.
Why do you thing advantage/disadvantage should be applied to 3 seconds but not to other violations?
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 10:56pm
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Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Over the last couple of years a misconception has been spreading through the basketball officiating world that advantage/disadvantage applies to violations (3 seconds is the exception). Advantage/disadvantage applies to fouls.
Why do you thing advantage/disadvantage should be applied to 3 seconds but not to other violations?

Because I have been officiating basketball for 32 years and have not called 3 seconds in 35 years.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 10:57pm
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That's a helluva reason.

But actually, I was hoping for a straight answer.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 11:03pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
That's a helluva reason.

But actually, I was hoping for a straight answer.

Now for the straight answer. I do call 3 seconds, but not very many, not because I do not believe in calling 3 seconds, but I think that the call is too often not called correctly, and it is my opinion that eventually, that 3 seconds will be removed from the rules.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 11:11pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
That's a helluva reason.

But actually, I was hoping for a straight answer.
Now for the straight answer. I do call 3 seconds, but not very many, not because I do not believe in calling 3 seconds, but I think that the call is too often not called correctly, and it is my opinion that eventually, that 3 seconds will be removed from the rules.
But my question is why do you think advantage/disadvantage should be applied to 3 seconds but not other violations? I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just curious about that philosophy.
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Old Sat Jan 10, 2004, 11:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
That's a helluva reason.

But actually, I was hoping for a straight answer.
Now for the straight answer. I do call 3 seconds, but not very many, not because I do not believe in calling 3 seconds, but I think that the call is too often not called correctly, and it is my opinion that eventually, that 3 seconds will be removed from the rules.
But my question is why do you think advantage/disadvantage should be applied to 3 seconds but not other violations? I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just curious about that philosophy.

I do not know if I can put it into words, but I will give an example. Team A has the ball in its front court. A1 (he/she could be the 6'-06" center or the 5'-06" point guard) is standing at the free throw line to set a screen. A1 has one foot about four inches into the paint. Tweet!! Three seconds. How does this effect the play? I hope this answers your question.
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