tournament selection

[mick]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
Can the same officials work a state final game in your area (or state) an unlimited number of years in a row?
Meaning, if I work a final game in 2000, can I also work again in 2001, 2002, 2003 and so on.
Or is there a rotation process of some type?
Just curious.

An official in the U.P. of Michigan, it is said, will, at most, work only one final per sport in a lifetime.
mick

[Rich]

I agree, Jeff. But before assigning a returning official, I would hope the assigning body would seek out and try to find someone who hasn't yet had that honor.

There are a lot of big games up to the state tournament/finals, so even officials who have made it to the top will still get pretty close in the future provided they still are able to perform at a high level.

Rich

[ace]

OQ - I dont write the rules I just know that is them. in the entire Texas Assocaiaton of Sports Officials we have 16-20 regions/chapters. that it is broken down into. The houston chapter alone has 700+ officials followed by dallas, san ant. and then lubbock. So they're are PLENTY of officials to choose from in the state for the finals. How they get picked I do not know. All I know is one chapter in the state has lost its right to ANY post-season assignments because they broke away from TASO. So that'll change things because a few of the finals officials came from that chapter last year from what I heard. Could be wrong though but I do know for a fact that chapter has lost its post-season officating rights. Officials for games that would normally fall under that chapter will have to be pulled from surrounding chapters per the governing body (UIL)

[oatmealqueen]

Originally posted by mick

An official in the U.P. of Michigan, it is said, will, at most, work only one final per sport in a lifetime.
mick

The UP of Michigan gets the shaft during tournament selection each year. IMHO

[oatmealqueen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

You're saying that in the entire state of Michigan there aren't enough 3-whistle crews so different ones work state finals every season? I can't imagine that.


I'm not saying that.


I'm in Wisconsin -- 2 whistles, 4 classes (girls and boys). Means only 16 officials can work state finals every season. In my opinion, you should get one of these in a career. There are certainly enough quality officials in a state to rotate this around so that all that are qualified get a shot at the brass ring.


In Michigan -- 3 whistle for all games -- 24 officials total boys/girls with a few alternates thrown in.
I'm not sure that everyone should be included based on longevity. There must be some other standards that one must meet other than years of service, in my humble opinion.

[zebraman]

Z
I'm not quite as confident as you.

Why not? I went to state last year and will go again this year. Then I sit out the following year. Not only are there many officials in my state just as capable as me, there are many officials in my local association who are capable of working any state championship game. IMHO, depth and "spreading the wealth" are a good thing.

Even if the selection system was perfect (which it never will be), I see only good coming from rotation.

Z

[WinterWillie]

When I was in (state omitted), the association would "choose" their top 16 officials. EVERY NIGHT of the playoffs, they would start with #1 and work down until all the slots were filled. Every year, the same officials would be listed 1-16 for the most part and if you were below 16 you simply wouldn't get a single post-season game. Some officials would work multiple games in each round based on the scheduling.

Who does that serve, exactly, besides the people who somehow find their way at the top of the list? If you were a transfer official, you could be one of the best officials in the world and you wouldn't be able to crack that list for YEARS until people on the list stated retiring.

The Top 16 was heavy with college officials who would work VERY FEW HS games until the playoffs and people who would've done the sport a great favor by retiring 10 years earlier.

Rich [/B][/QUOTE]

This sounds all too familiar to my state which brings up another one of my concerns. My state uses 2-man mechanics during the regular season and in the post season they use 3-man mechanics. What a joke! (It is a absolutely a nightmare working with someone who is not familiar with 3-man mechanics in that type of game.) In addition to this, my association will not assign a full schedule of varsity games to new members until they have worked between 13 to 15 years in their association thereby limiting the number of officials that would be qualified to move into the post season. And, if for some reason (let's say you move, our boards require that you live in the towns they serve) you transfer from another board, you lose all seniority and are assigned to all lower level games in that area. Of course, if you know someone, all of the rules change. I've seen a tremendous loss of talented officials because of these tactics and have worked with a number of officials who, as you say, who would have done the sport a great favor by retiring 10 years earlier.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[ In my opinion, you should get one of these in a career. Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jan 1st, 2004 at 09:20 PM] [/B]

I don't agree with this at all. Some people care about the welfare of the game more than others and it wouldn't be fair to let someone have a final just because the should get one in their career.

[Rich]

Not everyone who is capable of working a final will get one. But the state should identify new people every season who are capable of doing the job.

Even in the smallest states there should be enough quality officials to spread the wealth. Allowing the same officials to come back year after year allows states to be lazy (not have to really work to identify people every season) and allows politics to dictate the assignments more than it already does.

[stan-MI]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

An official in the U.P. of Michigan, it is said, will, at most, work only one final per sport in a lifetime.
mick

What that means is that some good officials get the shaft and some not-so-good ones get a break. For some reason, the UP has a separate officials selection process than the rest of the state. Once a Yooper goes to the finals, that's it. In the rest of the state, you're eligible again after a couple of years off.

Of the 12 officials in each of the boys and girls tournaments, the UP gets one official, as do 5 other zones established by the state association. Three zones (metro Detroit, Flint/Saginaw, and Lansing/Grand Rapids) get 2 officials. From the Detroit area, there are a few officials who've done 2 finals, and I'm only aware of 1 who has done 3. From some of the other zones, it seems like there's a rotation of 3 or 4 officials who go regularly.

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stan-MI

Originally posted by mick

What that means is that some good officials get the shaft and some not-so-good ones get a break. For some reason, the UP has a separate officials selection process than the rest of the state. Once a Yooper goes to the finals, that's it. In the rest of the state, you're eligible again after a couple of years off.

Of the 12 officials in each of the boys and girls tournaments, the UP gets one official, as do 5 other zones established by the state association. Three zones (metro Detroit, Flint/Saginaw, and Lansing/Grand Rapids) get 2 officials. From the Detroit area, there are a few officials who've done 2 finals, and I'm only aware of 1 who has done 3. From some of the other zones, it seems like there's a rotation of 3 or 4 officials who go regularly.

The reason for this, of course, is that some of us in the U.P. are not very good.

[mick]

Originally posted by stan-MI
From the Detroit area, there are a few officials who've done 2 finals, and I'm only aware of 1 who has done 3. From some of the other zones, it seems like there's a rotation of 3 or 4 officials who go regularly.

I believe we are in the company of an official that is good enough to have worked at least 5 championship final games, boys or girls.
mick

[zebra44]

OMQ, I think you did a Boys' Final involving a neighboring town of mine(Ishpeming)about 10 years ago. How many Girls' finals have you done?

[oatmealqueen]

Originally posted by zebra44
OMQ, I think you did a Boys' Final involving a neighboring town of mine(Ishpeming)about 10 years ago. How many Girls' finals have you done?

Have been fortunate to work 4 girls, and one boy's final between the UP's own Ishpeming vs Lakeview.

[oatmealqueen]

Originally posted by mick

I believe we are in the company of an official that is good enough to have worked at least 5 championship final games, boys or girls.
mick

I've got them all fooled.