Bad toss and rejump - the clock.

[Rich]

If the referee blows it down then there's another problem we aren't talking about.

The R doesn't have a whistle in his mouth. To blow it down, he'd have to toss, recognize the bad toss, bring the whistle in his mouth, and blow. By that point, if it REALLY is that bad, an umpire should've already killed it.

There are 4 quarters in a game and the toss just sets the arrow. It has to be a really dreadful toss (for instance one that goes untouched by the jumpers) before I'd blow it back. The coaches and spectators will forget how crappy my toss is pretty quickly. I may be more inclined to blow one down in overtime.

I'll have to be the U tonight now that I set myself up for a bad toss.

Rich

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by AK ref SE
[BIf it did, I am going to the table bring both coaches together tell them we are going to start the game with 8:00 on the clock and the clock should never have been started. Its the right thing to do.

[/B]

It might be the right thing to do, but you have absolutely no rules basis to do so, unfortunately, in this particular case. The timer started the clock correctly, by rule, when the ball was tapped. Four seconds later the timer stopped the clock correctly, by rule, when the official blew his whistle. The timer did not commit a "timing error" of any kind. The manual reference doesn't apply for the simple reason that the official did not signal for the clock to remain stopped in this case. If he had done so,and the timer had then ran the clock for 4 seconds,- then,yes, you could say that the timer had now committed a "timing error". There is no rule,play, etc. available that will allow you to put time back on the clock for this play. AAMF, casebook play 5.10.1SitA specifically says that the refereee can't put any time back on the clock.

[rainmaker]

Sheez, four pages about four seconds at the beginning of a game, and four pages about belts. We definitely need some new blood on this board.

[AK ref SE]

I am digging deep on this one, and I am sure that someone will say that I can't use this rule in this scenerio!

Rule 2.3
Referee's Authority
The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules.

I still say that I am going to put the time back on the clock to start the game. Clock should have never started.

AK ref SE

[Rich]

In response to Jurassic's use of bold print:

I'm going to give the most politically incorrect answer possible. I simply don't care whether there is a black-and-white justification for me to do so. I'm putting the time back on the clock and we're starting with 8:00 on the clock.

Somebody please follow this post with the typical response asking me which other rules I'm going to choose to ignore.

(Traveling and palming, probably, but I digress )

Juulie is right. We do need some new blood or at least something new to talk about.

Compression shorts? Patent leather shoes? Type of lanyard used? I think I'm going to go with the noose tonight, myself along with my New Balance shoes.

Rich

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I am digging deep on this one, and I am sure that someone will say that I can't use this rule in this scenerio!

Rule 2.3
Referee's Authority
The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules.

I still say that I am going to put the time back on the clock to start the game. Clock should have never started.

OK,I'll say that you can't use R2-3 because the the play is already covered in the rules,specifically the casebook play that I referenced.You can't ignore that one just because you don't agree with it.

I'll also say that if this same play happened to me, and if I was the R as in mick's original post-way baaaaack:
1)I would call for a re-jump.
2)I would tell the timer to re-set the game clock to 8:00,20:00,whatever, without even trying to explain why to the coaches.

You don't try to kill a gnat with a cannon.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
In response to Jurassic's use of bold print:

I'm going to give the most politically incorrect answer possible. I simply don't care whether there is a black-and-white justification for me to do so. I'm putting the time back on the clock and we're starting with 8:00 on the clock.

Oh, that's just great! Now tell us what other rules you'll ignore....

Somebody please follow this post with the typical response asking me which other rules I'm going to choose to ignore.

(Traveling and palming, probably, but I digress )

...oh wait...well never mind that! But I bet you're the type of guy that uses a damn noose instead of a smitty!

Juulie is right. We do need some new blood or at least something new to talk about.

Compression shorts? Patent leather shoes? Type of lanyard used? I think I'm going to go with the noose tonight, myself along with my New Balance shoes.

Rich

..uhmmmm....OK, then have a good game!!

Some people

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
In response to Jurassic's use of bold print:

I'm going to give the most politically incorrect answer possible. I simply don't care whether there is a black-and-white justification for me to do so. I'm putting the time back on the clock and we're starting with 8:00 on the clock.

Yup,and you would still be wrong, by rule.

And nobody in the free world would care, either, that you were wrong.I'd do the same thing, Rich.

This was just a nice little philosophical, what-if rules discussion. Not that much relationship to the real world.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

OK,I'll say that you can't use R2-3 because the the play is already covered in the rules,specifically the casebook play that I referenced.You can't ignore that one just because you don't agree with it.

I'll also say that if this same play happened to me, and if I was the R as in mick's original post-way baaaaack:
1)I would call for a re-jump.
2)I would tell the timer to re-set the game clock to 8:00,20:00,whatever, without even trying to explain why to the coaches.

You don't try to kill a gnat with a cannon.

et tu, geezer?

Soooo, what kind of compression shorts you wearing these days?

Not that you got much left to compress.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Soooo, what kind of compression shorts you wearing these days?

Not that you got much left to compress.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[BktBallRef]

Okay, I'll put in my 4 cents.

#1 - Once the ball is tossed, it's live. There's no rule that states a bad toss prevents the ball from becoming live. There's no rule that says the ball is dead because the toss is bad. The whistle makes the ball dead, not the bad toss. This ain't football.

#2 - As has already been said over and over again, there's no rule that allows you to put time back on the clock in this case, when the toss has been legally touched. If you give the wrong team the ball on a throw-in, you can't correct it, even if it is the "right" thing to do.

#3 - What should have happened is that the U1 should not have chopped the clock. Instead, he should have killed the play. He didn't, the clock started, the 4 seconds are history. Blame the U1 for screwing the pooch.

#4 - mick, if my U1 doesn't kill this, I ain't blowing.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Soooo, what kind of compression shorts you wearing these days?

Not that you got much left to compress.

[/B]

[/B][/QUOTE]

Whoa. Quite a pair of ears ya got there kid.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Okay, I'll put in my 4 cents.

#1 - Once the ball is tossed, it's live. There's no rule that states a bad toss prevents the ball from becoming live. There's no rule that says the ball is dead because the toss is bad. The whistle makes the ball dead, not the bad toss. This ain't football.

#2 - As has already been said over and over again, there's no rule that allows you to put time back on the clock in this case, when the toss has been legally touched. If you give the wrong team the ball on a throw-in, you can't correct it, even if it is the "right" thing to do.

#3 - What should have happened is that the U1 should not have chopped the clock. Instead, he should have killed the play. He didn't, the clock started, the 4 seconds are history. Blame the U1 for screwing the pooch.

#4 - mick, if my U1 doesn't kill this, I ain't blowing.

Great minds do think alike.

Now...about that sliding business...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Great minds do think alike.

Now...about that sliding business...

Oh, I have no problem with him sliding.

BTW, this was brought up at our last local clinic, and not by me.

The group was equally divided.

I sat there in silence, as I was already tired of discussing it.

[gsf23]

I couldn't believe it went four pages and we were still on topic..