Intentional Foul on Try

[AK ref SE]

My partner last year called an intentional foul toward the end of the game, Team B had to foul. Player A1 had the ball B1 grabbed the back of A1 jersey. No play on ball. Coach and fans were upset. But, Coach B knew it was the right call after he calmed down, and kept yelling at his players after that call to play the ball.
Good call in my opinion

AK ref SE

[rwest]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Chuck -- I saw an 8-point play once under somewhat different circumstances. B (which was my daughter's team) was behind by about 15 near the end of the third quarter. A had possession and was granted a 60 time out. They would receive the ball opposite the table in their back court just above the free throw line extended when the TO was over. Horn went, second horn went, no one came out. Ref hollered, whistled, no motion toward floor. Finally, ref put the ball down and started counting. STILL no motion by either team. Ref got to 5, blew the whistle, signaled that now it's B's ball, STILL no motion by either team. Ref put the ball down again, started counting again. At this point, a player on my daughter's team, Team B, saw somehow what was going on and knew enough to grab a team mate, race across the floor, inbound the ball and make an easy 3-point shot. NOW we got some action!!! Coach A goes postal and started running across the floor, got to the center circle before the ref called a technical. B made both shots, and during the shots Coach A had his girls huddled over near the bench. When the ref got ready to hand off the ball, Coach A STILL didn't have his girls out on the floor. B inbounded for another easy three point shot, as the A players were running out to their positions. They did finally get back into the game enough to inbound the ball under the basket. A still won, unfortunately.

Oh, and Matt, here's the most important piece of advice for your game Monday: HAVE FUN!!!!

I don't have my rule book with me, but doesn't it say that there is a technical foul if the entire team does not return to the floor at approximately the same time? Were the two girls the only two from B on the floor? If they were, is this not a technical foul? And if so, when do you blow the whistle? Has any one ever called a technical in a similar situation?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by rwest
...Ref put the ball down again, started counting again. At this point, a player on my daughter's team, Team B, saw somehow what was going on and knew enough to grab a team mate, race across the floor, inbound the ball and make an easy 3-point shot. NOW we got some action!!!

I don't have my rule book with me, but doesn't it say that there is a technical foul if the entire team does not return to the floor at approximately the same time? Were the two girls the only two from B on the floor? If they were, is this not a technical foul? And if so, when do you blow the whistle? Has any one ever called a technical in a similar situation?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Funny you should ask this tonight, because I had to call it tonight!! But the answer to the first question is, that it's only a T if the players who don't get onto the floor in the beginning, try to come onto the floor after a time. I mean, it's okay to have only two or three players, but then the other three or two can't come onto the floor later on. Which is what happened tonight. Four players on the floor. Fifth didn't realize she was supposed to be "in". Ball comes inbounds, is dribbled up the court, and --whish!-- blue player jumps up off bench and dashes onto the floor. Easy, if sad, call. Although blue won, anyway.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Which is what happened tonight. Four players on the floor. Fifth didn't realize she was supposed to be "in". Ball comes inbounds, is dribbled up the court, and --whish!-- blue player jumps up off bench and dashes onto the floor. Easy, if sad, call. Although blue won, anyway.

Who didn't count the players before the ball was put in play?

[Rich]

Five aside or the ball stays in my hands. I count the players after every situation like this (sub, timeout, end of quarter). If my partner has the ball, my hand is up. If I ever have a situation like this, I'd call the technical, but I'd be kicking myself for it for a while.

I hope everyone isn't coming down on Chuck. I see his point. If it is borderline intentional, it shouldn't be called intentional anytime. But some officials have a, ahem, unique idea of what constitutes an intentional foul and that borderline call really hurts when the ball goes in as well. I'd like to hear a description of the original play myself -- was it really intentional? To be honest, I haven't had an intentional in 2 seasons.

We had a 6-point "play" last night. 3-ball thrown up and my partner called an offball foul on B. A gets the 3 and the ball back and they jack up another 3.

Rich

[Grail]

Question to the masses:

In a game the other night, the Center on the Red team kept grabbing the opposing team's Center's jersey. He only did it when the were jockeying for position, and it never resulted in the jersey being extended away from the body. He simply would lay his hand on the players back and make a fist with the jersey in hand.

When I saw an advantage take place I called the hold (common foul), administered the penalty and went on. The question is, is this intentional. By Webster it is clearly intentional, and I've seen it called that way. I thought making that call would open a can of worms I preferred to to deal with and didn't make the call. I discussed it with my parntner at half-time and he agreed with me. However, in looking back on the game I can't help but think I should have called it the first time I saw it and ended it right there.

Any thoughts?

[David B]

Originally posted by Grail
Question to the masses:

In a game the other night, the Center on the Red team kept grabbing the opposing team's Center's jersey. He only did it when the were jockeying for position, and it never resulted in the jersey being extended away from the body. He simply would lay his hand on the players back and make a fist with the jersey in hand.

When I saw an advantage take place I called the hold (common foul), administered the penalty and went on. The question is, is this intentional. By Webster it is clearly intentional, and I've seen it called that way. I thought making that call would open a can of worms I preferred to to deal with and didn't make the call. I discussed it with my parntner at half-time and he agreed with me. However, in looking back on the game I can't help but think I should have called it the first time I saw it and ended it right there.

Any thoughts?

Was he fouling the player? Don't sound like it so I would not call it a foul.

This would be a good opportunity though to verbally tell him, "don't do that". Verbal instruction especially at the firs of the contest can clean it up without having to call foul after foul.

But if he continues, then call the foul, but I wouldn't call it intentional.

Its probably a bad habit, we used to be taught to hold the players jersey so you know when he's moving. I didn't foul him, just let me know what he was doing.

Thanks
David

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Grail
In a game the other night, the Center on the Red team kept grabbing the opposing team's Center's jersey. He only did it when the were jockeying for position, and it never resulted in the jersey being extended away from the body. He simply would lay his hand on the players back and make a fist with the jersey in hand.

If the jersey was never pulled away from the body, I would certainly not have an intentional foul; and maybe not a foul at all. Hard to say without seeing it.

But I have called an intentional foul when a defensive player held the jersey of his opponent, preventing him from cutting to the strong side of the court. The defender wasn't even trying to move. He just stood on the block and held the other guy's shirt. It was almost comical as the offensive player tried to make his cut and just got pulled back. Almost.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Who didn't count the players before the ball was put in play?

I counted. But I think there must have been someone standing talking to a coach, who then sat down. It was right after a time out. And I thought I saw five. But I'm willing to take the blame. it sure wasn't the best game I've ever had!

[WinterWillie]

When you mention intentional fouls, you guys always talk about the break away layup or the end of the game situation. You can have an intentional foul at anytime. Retaliation can come when you least expect it- if you haven't been focused on what was going on out there- you might not see it coming. The elbow in the side made to look like it was in the flow of play or the shove that indicates that someone has no love for his fellow player. These are intentional and must be called or you will end up in a place where your mother told you NEVER to go. If you should be so unfortunate to end up in NEVERLAND, do not ever put your arm around a player in an attempt to calm them down;or, even touch them in any fashion. You just may end up like MJ (and I don't mean Jordan). The bottom line is if you see an intentional foul in the beginning, middle or end- CALL IT. Let your whistle do the talking!

Advice to newcomers: really try hard to focus on the court and only the court. I will never forget the first game I ever did! I heard someone in the stands yell, "A gorilla could have made that call." I looked over to the stands and saw a 400 pound gorilla standing up looking at me.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
These are intentional and must be called or you will end up in a place where your mother told you NEVER to go.

If I miss an intentional foul, I'm going to end up in my dad's workshop?

really try hard to focus on the court and only the court.

And the benches. And the game clock. And the table. Not trying to poke fun, Willie. But there's a lot more going on than the 10 players on the court. I understand that it's tough enough for new officials to focus on the players, but they also need to be aware that any one of the other things I mentioned can put their whole game into the toilet. Have to stay on top of all of it, as much as possible.

[Forksref]

I agree 110% with Mark! Players, by their actions, determine the game.