Where is the Throw-in?

[Zoochy]

Team A throws the ball out of bounds on the side line. Team B has a throw-in at the location the ball went OOB. As Thrower, B1, attempts the Throw-in, B1 steps into the court before the ball is released. Does Team A's throw-in come back to the original spot? Or does it go to the 28' mark?

[bob jenkins]

That's a rule change / clarification for this coming year and we'll have to wait for a case play or to see the actual wording to be sure.

(I'll vote for the 28' mark.)

[JRutledge]

SECTION 2 THROW-IN PROVISIONS

PENALTY: (Section 2) The ball becomes dead when the violation or technical foul occurs. The location of the violation is the original throw-in spot. Following a violation:

Rationale: Prior to the implementation of designated throw-in spots, the location of the violation for all throw-in violations was the original throw-in spot. This was stated in 9-2 Penalty (see Rules Book 2023-24, page 61). With the new protocols for determining throw-in spots, the language referring to the original throw-in shot was inadvertently dropped this season. While most of the common violations during a throw-in occur with the ball and player at the original spot, some of the less common ones (9-2-2, 9-2-3, 9-2 6, 9-2-7, 9-2-8, etc..) do not happen there. This has led to questions about where to put the ball in play. Adding the language above continues the protocol of all throw-in violations occurring at the spot of the original throw-in. If the original throw-in spot is not a designated spot, then the ensuing throw-in is moved to such a spot (as per Diagram 5). This is defined in a and b of the Penalty section.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'll vote for the 28' mark.

Me too.

It's no longer an out of bounds violation (nearest spot), but a throwin violation (nearest of eight pre marked spots).

But I still need more clarification from the NFHS to be sure.

Rule 9-2 Penalty clarified that when an infraction occurs on a throw-in, the location of the violation is the original throw-in spot. If the original throw-in spot is not a designated spot, the ensuing throw-in is moved to such a spot.

This "word salad" above just confuses me.

The original rule change was quite simple, out of bounds, closest spot; any other violation or foul, closest pre marked spot.

Live ball clock running time out: closest pre marked spot, still not too complex.

Exception for timeouts after an out of bounds, original spot, still not too complex.

And similar throwin timeouts under other circumstances (other violations and fouls)

Four spots to eight spots and interpretations for backcourt violations; still kept it relatively simple.

Things got difficult when the NFHS made it more complex with various interpretations involving violations during the throwin for an out of bounds violation.

Makes me yearn for the good ole days, only three years ago.

Or maybe we should go back four years before any of this crap started.

It was a solution looking for a problem.

I do like the three point arc instead of the rocket ship diagram.

[Raymond]

I don't have access to books. Has "a designated spot" been defined in rule 4?

Just asking because, as I've mentioned somewhere else, I think there is going to be some confusion because a throw in after an out of bounds violation is a "designated spot" throw-in, as it is colloquially called, universally, throughout the officiating community.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't have access to books. Has "a designated spot" been defined in rule 4?

Just asking because, as I've mentioned somewhere else, I think there is going to be some confusion because a throw in after an out of bounds violation is a "designated spot" throw-in, as it is colloquially called, universally, throughout the officiating community.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

Agreed. I've been thinking about the language, but I am traveling and away from my books. And, it's subject to change once the NFHS clarifies things. But, I think this is a start:

Two types of throw-ins: “Run the Endline” and “Spot”

Run the Endline

After a made or awarded score
After a time out that happens before the throw-in ends
After a defensive violation (kick or fist) or common foul that happens before the throw-in ends

Spot

Division Line Opposite the Table

To start the second, third, and fourth quarter
After any T
After a timeout that happens before the throw-in ends

Along a boundary line closest to the violation

After an OOB violation
After a time-out that happens before the throw-in ends.

At one of the eight designated spots

After any other violation or non-shooting personal foul
After an intentional or flagrant personal foul
Both of the above including any that happen during any throw-in
After a time-out that happens before the throw-in ends

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

At one of the eight (pre marked) designated spots - After a time-out that happens before the throw-in ends

After two plus years of somewhat confusing experience, didn't this stay at the original spot (unless it was originally at one of the eight premarked designated spots)?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

At one of the eight (pre marked) designated spots - After any other violation

(Note: "Other" meaning other than an out of bounds violation.)

Does other include throwin violations?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

After two plus years of somewhat confusing experience, didn't this stay at the original spot (unless it was originally at one of the eight premarked designated spots)?

A timeout has never moved the location of the throw-in. Never has, and not sure why that is confusing. If the violation was an out-of-bounds throw-in and they cannot get off the throw-in and call a timeout, we do not move the throw-in spot several feet because of only a timeout. They made that clear in the roll out of the 4 spots in the FC.

I get some situations being an issue, but this is not one of them.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

At one of the eight designated spots - After a time-out that happens before the throw-in ends

A throwin originally due to an out of bounds violation?

Or a throwin for some other (non OOB) violation or foul?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... didn't this stay at the original spot (unless it was originally at one of the eight premarked designated spots)?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... not sure why that is confusing.

It's bob jenkins recent post that confuses me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A timeout has never moved the location of the throw-in. Never has ...

How about a timeout taken during a player control, team control, live ball, clock running situation?

Doesn't (or didn't) the throwin in get moved (if it wasn't there already) to the nearest of the eight pre marked designated spots?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A timeout has never moved the location of the throw-in.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How about a timeout taken during a player control, team control, live ball, clock running situation? Doesn't (or didn't) the throwin in get moved (if it wasn't there already) to the nearest of the eight pre marked designated spots?

White 10 is about to get caught up in a held ball situation deep in the frontcourt endline corner, just outside the three point arc. Head coach of White Team requests and is immediately granted a timeout. Coming out of the time out, White team gets the subsequent throwin at the nearest pre marked designated spot, the 28 foot line (not down in the corner).

Right?

That is certainly a move, and a change of location, after a timeout.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

White 10 is about to get caught up in a held ball situation deep in the frontcourt endline corner, just outside the three point arc. Head coach of White Team requests and is immediately granted a timeout. Coming out of the time out, White team gets the subsequent throwin at the nearest pre marked designated spot, the 28 foot line (not down in the corner).

Right?

That is certainly a move, and a change of location, after a timeout.

I would say that throw-in location is determined by where the ball was when the time-out occurred, not that the time-out moves the location. The spot doesn’t change after the time-out. It is the same as when the time-out was granted and when it was started.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

After two plus years of somewhat confusing experience, didn't this stay at the original spot (unless it was originally at one of the eight premarked designated spots)?

1) I thought about this while traveling, and put it on paper while poolside

2) Wasn't meant to replace the actual rules -- just to try to address some of the confusion

3) "After a TO before the throw-in ends" was meant to apply ONLY during the specific throw-in type being discussed.

4) I did forget "TO during a live ball" -- this goes to one of the 8 designated spots. I'll add it.

5) "Any other violation" means any non-OOB violation -- including, imo, any throw-in violation for some other type of throw-in. (subject to change based on Fed interps and the actual rule wording)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How about a timeout taken during a player control, team control, live ball, clock running situation?

Doesn't (or didn't) the throwin in get moved (if it wasn't there already) to the nearest of the eight pre marked designated spots?

If you have a PC foul, it goes to one of the four spots. If you have a timeout before the throw-in ends, why would the spot move? When did that ever happen?

Peace