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Old Thu Jul 31, 2025, 03:05pm
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Imaginary ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
"- and is inside the imaginary basket cylinder."
When did that become a requirement for GT?
Great observation.

Inside the imaginary cylinder would be basket interference.

Outside is goaltending (with other assumptions).

Hopefully we can blame IAABO, not the NFHS.

However, I seem to remember the NFHS carelessly leaving the imaginary cylinder out of the definition of goaltending in the rule book many years ago and then they had to correct it.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you again.
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Old Fri Aug 01, 2025, 01:11pm
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Cylinder? What Cylinder ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Great observation. Inside the imaginary cylinder would be basket interference. Outside is goaltending (with other assumptions). Hopefully we can blame IAABO, not the NFHS. However, I seem to remember the NFHS carelessly leaving the imaginary cylinder out of the definition of goaltending in the rule book many years ago and then they had to correct it.
Seem to remember?

It was actually me that corrected it!

BillyMac's Suggested NFHS Rule Changes:

If you have a situation where a player touches the ball during a field-goal try, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, while the ball is in the cylinder, and the ball has the possibility of entering the basket in flight, then, by strict interpretation of the written definition, the official can call either a goaltending violation, or a basket interference violation.

The definition of goaltending did contain the requirement of the ball having to be outside of the imaginary cylinder through the 2003-04 season. For some unknown reason the rule was edited, without comment, or announcement, for the 2004-05 season and that part of the definition was dropped.

2002-03 NFHS 4-22: Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while: a) the ball is in downward flight. b) the entire ball is above the level of the basket ring. c) the ball has the possibility of entering the basket in flight. d) the ball is not touching an imaginary cylinder which has the basket ring as its lower base.

2012-13 NFHS 4-22: Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while it is in its downward flight entirely above the basket ring level and has the possibility of entering the basket in flight.

This omission (outside the cylinder) needs to be corrected.


It was finally corrected in 2015-16.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post966699
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Aug 01, 2025 at 01:18pm.
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Old Sat Aug 02, 2025, 08:59am
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IABBO Correction ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
" ... and is inside the imaginary basket cylinder." When did that become a requirement for GT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Great observation. Inside the imaginary cylinder would be basket interference. Outside is goaltending (with other assumptions). Hopefully we can blame IAABO, not the NFHS.
I emailed T. J. Halliday, IAABO International Director of Learning and Development, and it has been corrected.

Goaltending Rule Clarification – 2025-26
For clarity, officials should now recognize that there are three distinct goaltending definitions in NFHS rules:

1. Traditional Goaltending (NFHS 4-22-1)
A defensive player commits goaltending by touching the ball during a try or tap for goal while it is:
- In it's downward flight,
- Is entirely above ring level,
- has a chance to enter the basket in flight,
- and is outside the imaginary basket cylinder.

Key Takeaway:
Beginning this season, this infraction applies only to the defense and requires the ball to be above the ring with the possibility of scoring.

2. Free Throw Goaltending (NFHS 4-22-2)
A defensive player commits goaltending by touching a free throw attempt outside the cylinder—even if the ball is not above the ring level.
This is a goaltending violation and also a technical foul (NFHS 10-4-9).

3. New for 2025-26 – Backboard Contact = Downward Flight (NFHS 4-22-3)
New Rule: When the ball contacts the backboard, it is considered to be in its downward flight by rule.
If a defensive player touches the ball after it hits the backboard, and the ball has a chance to score, this is goaltending.

Key Distinction:
This rule modifies NFHS 4-22-1 by removing the judgment of whether the ball is actually on its way down, the backboard contact alone determines that.

Interpretation Note:
While NFHS Rule 4-22-3 does not specify that the ball must be above the ring, IAABO has confirmed through discussions with NFHS that an upcoming interpretation will mirror the NCAA Men’s rule:If any part of the ball is above the ring level after backboard contact and is then touched by a defender, goaltending has occurred.

Backboard Logistics – Practical Application
On some backboards, the ring is 12 inches above the bottom of the backboard; on others, it may only be 6 inches. A boy's basketball is about 9.4 inches, and a girl's ball is 9.1 inches in height.Given those dimensions, it is highly probable that part of the ball is above the ring after striking the backboard, making goaltending likely under the new rule.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Aug 04, 2025 at 03:22am.
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Old Mon Aug 04, 2025, 11:37am
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Upcoming Interpretation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There is nothing in the current rule that they just posted that says anything about how much the ball is above the rim. It does not even say being above the rim is a requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Interpretation Note: While NFHS Rule 4-22-3 does not specify that the ball must be above the ring, IAABO has confirmed through discussions with NFHS that an upcoming interpretation will mirror the NCAA Men’s rule: If any part of the ball is above the ring level after backboard contact and is then touched by a defender, goaltending has occurred.
We'll have to await the upcoming NFHS interpretation.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Aug 04, 2025 at 11:40am.
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Old Mon Aug 04, 2025, 12:07pm
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Alleged interp. NFHS still hasn't published the case book.
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Old Mon Aug 04, 2025, 02:08pm
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Pants On Fire ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
Alleged interp. NFHS still hasn't published the case book.
Do you not believe IAABO?

Or do you not believe the NFHS?

Or have they joined together in a conspiracy?

They tell us that they're going to release the Epstein client list, sorry, I mean the interpretation, that it's right on their desk, and then they don't follow through on their pledge to release it.

Liars. IAABO. NFHS. The whole bunch of 'em are all damn liars.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 05, 2025 at 11:25am.
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Old Mon Aug 04, 2025, 07:13pm
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I don't do projections. When the casebook or this hypothetical interp gets released, I'll go with it. Until then...
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