Where Is The Throwin ???

[BillyMac]

Here's another interesting IAABO Refresher Exam question.

About a dozen and a half guys in our study group couldn't come up with a consensus answer.

52) A-1 has the ball for the alternating-possession throw-in at the division line to start the second quarter. Team A commits a throw-in violation by taking longer than five seconds to release the ball on a throw-in pass. The official administers Team B’s throw-in at the designated frontcourt throw-in spot at the 28-foot mark in Team B’s frontcourt, opposite the scorer’s table.

IAABO answer No.

Unfortunately for most of you, the definitive reference citation is from the IAABO handbook:

IAABO 9:2:E: When a throwin provision is violated, the new throwin is from the same designated spot as the original throwin. If the ensuing throwin is in the offended team’s frontcourt, it is from the nearest of the four designated frontcourt designated throwin spots.

IAABO Play 9-2-3 (New): Thrower A1 has the ball for an alternating possession throwin at the division line to start the second quarter. A1 commits a throwin violation by taking longer than five seconds to release the ball for a throwin pass. Ruling: The official administers the ensuing throwin for Team B as a designated spot throwin at the division line, opposite the table. The possession arrow is switched toward Team B’s basket immediately after the violation by A1. The ensuing throwin in not an AP throwin, so Team B will be entitled to the next throwin under the AP procedure (6-4-4, 6-4-5)

IAABO also provided some NFHS reference citations:

NFHS 6-4-2 Alternating Possession: To start the second, third and fourth quarters, the throw-in must be from out of bounds at the division line opposite the scorer’s and timer’s table.

Didn't the quarter already start with the throwin violation?

NFHS 4-42-5-C Throw-In, Thrower, Designated Spot: The throw-in ends when: The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

NFHS 6-4-5 Alternating Possession: … An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends as in 4-42-5.

I've decided to remind you of this:

2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 9: A1, while dribbling the ball in team A’s frontcourt, steps on but not over the division line. RULING: Backcourt violation. COMMENT: The ball was in team control in the frontcourt and went to the backcourt when A1 contacted the division line. Team B is awarded a possession throw-in in its frontcourt at one of the four designated spots nearest the violation.

IAABO also cited NFHS 2023-24 Rule Interpretation (January 4, 2024).

Does anyone have access to this NFHS interpretation?

I can't locate it anywhere.

Is it a top secret interpretation?

Any discussion?

[Raymond]

The ball has no front court or back court status during a throw in, opposed to a live ball being dribbled near the division line.

The ball actually has front court or back court status, it's not adjacent to...
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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The ball has no front court or back court status during a throw in, opposed to a live ball being dribbled near the division line.

Good point.

I would still like to see the NFHS 2023-24 Rule Interpretation (January 4, 2024).

[bob jenkins]

SITUATION 1: Team A has an alternating possession throw-in at the division line to start the second quarter. (A) Team A commits a violation by taking longer than five seconds to release the ball, (b) A2 commits a common foul in Team A's backcourt near the free throw line before the bonus is in effect. RULING: In (a) Team B is awarded a division line throw-in and in (b) Team B is awarded a throw-in from one of the designated spots closest to where the foul was committed. COMMENT: A throw-in violation that occurs during a division line throw-in remains at the division line. When a foul occurs during a division line throw-in the spot of the in-bound will be based on where the foul occurred. (5-4-2, 7-5-3a, 7-5-4)

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1051863

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1051863

Thanks bob jenkins. I found it yesterday, thanks for posting it for us

A nice definitive NFHS reference citation to this very specific situation.

I had not known about this relatively new casebook play until it popped up as a reference citation on my IAABO Refresher Exam.

I'm not a big fan of the "four magic spots".

My elevator pitch:

"If the ball is going to be inbounded in the frontcourt, it will always be inbounded at one of the closest four closest "magic spots" except if the stoppage in play was due to the ball going out of bounds, in which case it will be inbounded at the spot closest to where the ball went out of bounds".

I wish that it was really that simple

A few "odd" exceptions.

Liked it better the "old way".

Less thinking for me to do.

[Raymond]

You've told us that before.

I love the four magic spots, and so do coaches.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I love the four magic spots, and so do coaches.

Why coaches?

They still have to prepare and practice plays for possible inbounds from every single linear inch of the frontcourt perimeter for out of bounds violations?

I coached middle school for twenty-five years.

Short season, half of a gym for practice, no weekend or holiday/vacation practices.

Never did come up with great inbound play from the deep frontcourt corner.

[Raymond]

The rule had its beginning in NCAA Men's basketball. College rules are written by coaches and athletic directors. College coaches wanted consistency on throw-in spots for violations and fouls.

Their observation, and mine, was that officials were not consistent in putting the ball in the right spot after a violation or foul.

And whatever stories you have about your own personal experiences doesn't matter to those people who wrote the rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

College coaches wanted consistency on throw-in spots for violations and fouls. Their observation, and mine, was that officials were not consistent in putting the ball in the right spot after a violation or foul.

Actually, I think that you stated this in an earlier post. Thanks for reminding me. Good point.

My very short pregame with my middle school partners always contains, "Let's put the ball in play where it belongs. Don't worry about making me move".

My advice must go in one ear and out the other (as my Mom used to say) because some of my partners often pick a throwin spot based on convenience, not rule.

[JamesBCrazy]

To actually answer the question: The division line is in the backcourt, so Team B's throw-in does not move to one of the four designated spots in the frontcourt.