Faking Being Fouled Rule ...

[JRutledge]

I do not know what the NF says because the NF has stated to their members something different and have not put out.

The chart is great, but there have been challenges to that and does not state that in their own literature (the first play in the casebook as an example).

Again, my state is not doing the "immediately" thing unless it is a head bob or some other kind of action when the ball is in control of the offense. On a shot, we are not doing it immediately as it might not be any control when ruling a flop.

This is my total frustration with this rule, they did not think of a lot of the possibilities and tried to be cute and different from the other levels for some reason. They just should have adopted whatever NCAA Men's or Women's did and called it a day. But instead, they did the cute thing and needed be unique when this has been done at the NCAA level for years now. Men's has been using this rule since 2019 and Women's ball put in the rule last year. Pick a side and do it that way.

But again, my state is not going anything immediately on a shot and stated several times the AP arrow is not to be used or wait until control so play can be stopped. Indiana that I also work did the very same thing after being told how waiting until the "next dead ball" could be very problematic. The head person for Indiana is currently on the NF Basketball Committee and was advised to change their initial interpretation.

I get that TJ is now on the committee, but it appears many with the NF are not talking with each other. Because it seems obvious the NF started changing their stances and telling states what they wanted to be done.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... my state is not doing the "immediately" thing unless it is a head bob or some other kind of action when the ball is in control of the offense. On a shot, we are not doing it immediately as it might not be any control when ruling a flop ... my state is not going anything immediately on a shot and stated several times the AP arrow is not to be used or wait until control so play can be stopped. Indiana that I also work did the very same thing after being told how waiting until the "next dead ball" could be very problematic.

TJ Halliday (IAABO Director of Learning and Development and a member of the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee) in his recent online Zoom Faking Being Fouled clinic (where I got the One In A Million Play screen grab) admitted such right from the get go, that many states, both IAABO, and non-IAABO, are handing flopping situations very differently from the NFHS "best practices" outline.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

TJ Halliday (IAABO Director of Learning and Development and a member of the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee) in his recent online Zoom Faking Being Fouled clinic (where I got the One In A Million Play screen grab) admitted such right from the get go, that many states, both IAABO, and non-IAABO, are handing flopping situations very differently from the NFHS "best practices" outline.

He said they might be handling it differently than the NF, not the "best practices" if I recall. But in the NF Casebook has a very specific comment to what to do. It sounds like either someone decided that was not enough or there is not the connection to what was already posted. Either way, this is typical of the NF which has been frustrating for years.

https://photobucket.com/share/4f0e8b...4-3741b583722b

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But in the NF Casebook has a very specific comment to what to do. It sounds like either someone decided that was not enough or there is not the connection to what was already posted.

This is exactly how the NFHS Faking Being Fouled Best Practices wants this situation handled:

Defensive player, B1, attempting to “draw a charge” goes to the floor with no or
incidental contact. This is described in the rules as overtly embellishing the impact of
incidental contact on block/charge plays. In this play, the team faking being fouled is on
defense and thus the offended team (Team A) has team control. (4-49-1a)

Adjudication: When does the official blow the whistle and signal for both the first and
subsequent infractions?
- The official should signal faking being fouled (New #15) as soon as the official
identifies behavior that, in their opinion, rises to the level of faking being fouled.
The official should withhold the whistle so as not to penalize the offensive team
for actions of the defense.

First Infraction – The team that is faking being fouled is on defense. The
official will display the faking being foul signal (New #15) when the official
recognizes the behavior but will withhold the whistle until: (a) Team A
scores – repeated attempts at the basket are allowed; OR (b) Team B
gains control of the ball. Once Team A scores OR Team B gains control,
the official will sound the whistle, report the warning to the table, and
notify the head coach.
- Successful Try – The basket will count. Team B will be awarded
the ball on the endline and may move along the endline as after
any successful try. (7-5-7)
- Team B Gains Control – Team B is awarded a throw-in from the
spot out of bounds closest to where they gained control. (7-5-3b)

2nd/Subsequent Infraction – The same procedures as above apply.
- Successful Try – The basket will count. A team technical foul is
charged to Team B. Team A will shoot two free throws and get the
ball for a division line throw-in opposite the scorer’s table. (10-2-
1h, 10-2 PENALTY)
- Team B Gains Control – A team technical foul is charged to Team
B. Team A will shoot two free throws and get the ball for a
division line throw-in opposite the scorer’s table. (10-2-1h, 10-2
PENALTY)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He said they might be handling it differently than the NF, not the "best practices" if I recall.

Aren't the NF and NFHS Faking Being Fouled Best Practices one in the same (with the exception of the One In A Million Play)?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Aren't the NF and NFHS Faking Being Fouled Best Practices one in the same (with the exception of the One In A Million Play)?

Why did the NF make several modifications to the states after they posted this document? I am just telling you what I know. My state waited on the NF to give more information and when they did, they came to the conclusion that they would not go to the AP arrow on the play I described. Wait until the ball is controlled.

Even in our IHSA video, they talked about us giving the "flop" signal at least 2 times and TJ in the IAABO video said to do it just once. Seems like there is a lot of miscommunication over something so simple. BTW, in college, we are encouraged to give the signal more than once. Again, where did this rule come from again?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... this is typical of the NF which has been frustrating for years.

Amen.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is my total frustration with this rule, they did not think of a lot of the possibilities and tried to be cute and different from the other levels for some reason ... they did the cute thing and needed be unique

Agree.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Couldn’t the NFHS have just kept the old faking being fouled rule and made it a point of emphasis; encouraging officials actually call it in a game? Wouldn’t one, or two, faking being fouled player technical fouls at the beginning of a season put an end to all of this foolishness?

Even with no team warning (the old rule), one still has to consider offensive or defensive players, delayed whistles, etc.

Nothing is ever easy.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know what the NF says because the NF has stated to their members something different

Find out what the NFHS expects regarding faking being fouled (flopping) in their 2024-25 Rulebook, 2024-25 Casebook, 2024-25 Basketball Simplified and Illustrated, and on their NFHS basketball website (2024-25 Basketball Rules Changes, 2024-25 Basketball Comments on the Rules, 2024-25 Basketball Points of Emphasis, 2024-25 Basketball Rules Interpretations, Faking Being Fouled Best Practices).

I could be wrong, but everything regarding faking being fouled (flopping) is there except the One In A Million Play.

And TJ Halliday (NFHS Basketball Rules Committee) has already stated that the NFHS signal chart is in error.

Not sure why the NFHS hasn't admitted the same, but I'm pretty sure that if TJ Halliday knows about the error, the NFHS knows about the error also.

And, of course, as both you and TJ Halliday have stated, some states are choosing to "go it on their own", distancing themselves from following NFHS rules, interpretations, signals, guidelines, best practices, etc., regarding such.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Find out what the NFHS expects regarding faking being fouled (flopping) in their 2024-25 Rulebook, 2024-25 Casebook, 2024-25 Basketball Simplified and Illustrated, and on their NFHS basketball website (2024-25 Basketball Rules Changes, 2024-25 Basketball Comments on the Rules, 2024-25 Basketball Points of Emphasis, 2024-25 Basketball Rules Interpretations, Faking Being Fouled Best Practices).

I could be wrong, but everything regarding faking being fouled (flopping) is there except the One In A Million Play.

And TJ Halliday (NFHS Basketball Rules Committee) has already stated that the NFHS signal chart is in error.

Not sure why the NFHS hasn't admitted the same, but I'm pretty sure that if TJ Halliday knows about the error, the NFHS knows about the error also.

And, of course, as both you and TJ Halliday have stated, some states are choosing to "go it on their own", distancing themselves from following NFHS rules, interpretations, signals, guidelines, best practices, etc., regarding such.

All I can reference is what I was told by people in higher positions in my state. The IHSA put out literature that went against what TJ stated and someone is under the impression or telling states how things are supposed to be done. Maybe someone was speaking out of turn or talking before all the issues were ironed out. I believe TJ totally from his point of view, but I also believe the people in my state came up with their own literature on the issue.

This goes back to again the NF's rollout of this was horrible. Absolutely horrible. They could have addressed many of these things directly in their literature and not causing further confusion.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This goes back to again the NF's rollout of this was horrible. Absolutely horrible.

IAABO Zoom clinic on signalling Wednesday evening.

Presenter again stated that the NFHS faking being fouled signal is in error.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I also believe the people in my state came up with their own literature on the issue.

TJ Halliday also mentioned this last week in his Zoom clinic presentations, many states have set their own guidelines regarding flopping.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

IAABO Zoom clinic on signalling Wednesday evening.

Presenter again stated that the NFHS faking being fouled signal is in error.





TJ Halliday also mentioned this last week in his Zoom clinic presentations, many states have set their own guidelines regarding flopping.

You clearly do not get what I am saying. The NF is doing their own thing for a rule they did not create or invent. The signal was decided to be given multiple times. But the NF insists on a minor issue about how many times you give the signal. Illinois put it in their video that the signal was to be given at least twice so it could be seen. Giving it once might even not make the situation communicated properly.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Illinois put it in their video that the signal was to be given at least twice so it could be seen.

When in Rome ...