2024-25 NFHS Rules Changes

[bucky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

Peace

Unsure about "implied ruling". It is in the rules, no?

I also like the blood rule but still feel 20 seconds is not enough. I'd like it to be more generous. Kid gets opponent's blood on their jersey and there's no way that can be rectified in 20 seconds. Now, officials will probably allow a little extra time but still. Often extra jersey need to be changed in the locker room, trainers can't readily be found, blood cleaner in training room and not at bench, etc.

Regarding pre-game dunking....Many NBA rules trickle down to college and college trickles down to high school. The upper two have allowed pre-game dunking for a very long time. Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me. All reasons given have been quite hypocritical IMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Unsure about "implied ruling". It is in the rules, no?

I also like the blood rule but still feel 20 seconds is not enough. I'd like it to be more generous. Kid gets opponent's blood on their jersey and there's no way that can be rectified in 20 seconds. Now, officials will probably allow a little extra time but still. Often extra jersey need to be changed in the locker room, trainers can't readily be found, blood cleaner in training room and not at bench, etc.

Gives them a shot to stay in the game which before they had to be removed regardless. That is the college rule and often gets fixed in that time. Usually just a small scratch and they use a bandage to cover it up. Usually it is not an issue of it being all over the place, but just a spot.

Originally Posted by bucky

Regarding pre-game dunking....Many NBA rules trickle down to college and college trickles down to high school. The upper two have allowed pre-game dunking for a very long time. Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me. All reasons given have been quite hypocritical IMO.

It has really not been that long at the college level. But they are not just allowing it, they are changing the penalty.

Peace

[BillyMac]

1996-97: 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game.

2005-06 3-3-5: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2013-14 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and comes onto the court must be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.

Interesting evolution of this rule, some of it unannounced.

Previous to 2005-06 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Previous to 2013-14, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was still directed to leave the game (timeout exception added in 2006-07).

From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception). And we also have actual rule language (I believe for the first time) in support that a coach can enter the court to attend to an injured player without an official beckoning.

Forty-plus years ago, our local interpreter told us that if a coach entered the court to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning, we were to “deem” him to be beckoned. He didn’t want any technical fouls charged to coaches for leaving the bench (seat belt rule back then, coaching box later) to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned (“and”), but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.

Last season, I actually had a coach refuse to enter the court to attend to his injured player after I beckoned him. Best player, fourth period of a close game. He didn't want to "burn" a timeout to keep his best player in the game. Sure enough, in a few short seconds, the "injured" star player bounced back up and was ready to play. The coach obviously knew his player (a former Academy Award winner) much better than me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception).

Not a big change, but now officials should patiently wait a second or so before beckoning just to make sure that help is needed. Don't need an upset coach that has to burn a timeout because an official "reflexively" beckoned when there was no actual need to beckon, and the player pops back up in a short time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not a big change, but now officials should patiently wait a second or so before beckoning just to make sure that help is needed. Don't need an upset coach that has to burn a timeout because an official "reflexively" beckoned when there was no actual need to beckon, and the player pops back up in a short time.

And what exactly changes between how I handled this last year and how I'll handle it this year? I still waited a bit if it was unclear -- the coach was always free to come on his own.

Blood rule is good for small things that a bandaid can fix, which is probably what the committee was thinking.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Forty-plus years ago, our local interpreter told us that if a coach entered the court to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning, we were to “deem” him to be beckoned. He didn’t want any technical fouls charged to coaches for leaving the bench (seat belt rule back then, coaching box later) to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning.

Originally Posted by Rich

... the coach was always free to come on his own

Same here, not by rule (previous to 2024-25), but by local interpretation.

If a coach "reflexively"" enters the court to check on an injured player without being officially beckoned, no penalty except to "burn" a timeout (if he has one) to keep such a player in the game, or to have such a player "sit a tick".

Leaving the coaching box (or the bench in ancient times) has (locally) , and will continue (nationally) to be ignored during possible injury situations.

We now have it in the NFHS rule language.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

And what exactly changes between how I handled this last year and how I'll handle it this year?

I just want to avoid doing this (below).

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Last season, I actually had a coach refuse to enter the court to attend to his injured player after I beckoned him. Best player, fourth period of a close game. He didn't want to "burn" a timeout to keep his best player in the game. Sure enough, in a few short seconds, the "injured" star player bounced back up and was ready to play. The coach obviously knew his player (a former Academy Award winner) much better than me.

Next year, even if the coach doesn't enter the court, if he was beckoned (visually and verbally for everyone to see and hear), he has to burn a timeout (if he has one), or have the player "sit a tick".

Now that we have rulebook language that seems to indicate that there is no technical foul for leaving the coaching box in an injury situation (never was by local interpretation), I intend to be more patient to beckon in such situations.

[Stat-Man]

If flopping has become enough of an issue under NFHS rules that it's being addressed with a rule change, why isn't the penalty a player technical instead of a team technical foul.

Better to charge it to the player and have them halfway to disqualification to drive the point home that there's no place for flopping in the game. A team technical may not be enough of a deterrent for someone who wants to flop repeatedly.

If they want to keep it a team technical, at least make it akin to the plane violation rule where a single player repeatedly breaking the plane is ultimately subject to receiving a player technical per rule 10-4-5-d. If a player is flopping repeatedly, it deserves the same treatment.


That said, I'm glad none of the proposals to tinker with team fouls for the bonus passed. What we have now works well.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1996-97: 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game.

2005-06 3-3-5: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2013-14 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and comes onto the court must be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.

Interesting evolution of this rule, some of it unannounced.

Previous to 2005-06 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Previous to 2013-14, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was still directed to leave the game (timeout exception added in 2006-07).

From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception). And we also have actual rule language (I believe for the first time) in support that a coach can enter the court to attend to an injured player without an official beckoning.

Forty-plus years ago, our local interpreter told us that if a coach entered the court to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning, we were to “deem” him to be beckoned. He didn’t want any technical fouls charged to coaches for leaving the bench (seat belt rule back then, coaching box later) to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was wrong, off by a year, but still wrong.

Casebook plays from 1996-97 to 2004-05 confirm that a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Rule changed (timeout exception) in 2005-06.

I'll correct above.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I just want to avoid doing this (below).



Next year, even if the coach doesn't enter the court, if he was beckoned (visually and verbally for everyone to see and hear), he has to burn a timeout (if he has one), or have the player "sit a tick".

Now that we have rulebook language that seems to indicate that there is no technical foul for leaving the coaching box in an injury situation (never was by local interpretation), I intend to be more patient to beckon in such situations.

I just sat down this afternoon to read the NFHS Press Release because I was in Akron this past weekend watching Mark, Jr. umpire in the Great Midwest Athletic Conference Softball Championship Tournament and only had my NFHS and NCAA Softball books with me.

I want to thank BillyMac for climbing into his attic at address the changes to R3-S3-A6 and its history for me, ��!

I will address the "flopping" rule later because many of you know position on this situation, and I intend to address it in the Facebook Groups: Wood County Basketball Officials Association, NFHS - Basketball Officials, and Basketball Officials Forum.

Therefore I will address the "Dunking a Dead Ball" rules change. The rule change is, essentially, returning to the Penalty when the Rule was amended by the NBC for 1971-72. The Penalty was an Administrative TF; it was not charged to the Dunker (and of course it did not count toward the Team Totals nor was it charged as an IDTF to the HC).

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Previous to 2006-07 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach apparently couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court? Was that actually a “thing”? I thought that a coach always, possibly all the way back to James Naismith and laced basketballs, had the ability ”buy” his player back into the game with a timeout?

I was wrong, off by a year, but still wrong.

Casebook plays from 1996-97 to 2004-05 confirm that a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Rule changed (timeout exception) in 2005-06.

I'll correct above.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Regarding pre-game dunking ... Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me.

1) High school age and middle school age athletes are less likely to easily be able to successfully dunk and thus are more likely to injure themselves trying to do something that they struggle to do compared to older college and professional athletes.

2) Break, or bend, a rim in a high school gym, or a middle school gym, and one is less likely going have a readily available replacement rim, and/or someone skilled enough to quickly replace it, or repair it, than in a college gym, or a professional gym.

In an interscholastic game, a bent, or broken rim, is more likely to result in both teams (players, coaches, cheerleaders), one team that traveled to the game in an expensive bus, paid officials, paid table crew, paid police officer in the corner, paid press and photographers, and hundreds of ticket buying fans, postponing the game, turning out the gym lights, and going home, than in a collegiate, or professional game.

I see bent, and broken, rims all the time on outdoor playground backboards.

I really don't want to see such in my interscholastic gyms.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) High school age and middle school age athletes are less likely to easily be able to successfully dunk and thus are more likely to injure themselves trying to do something that they struggle to do compared to older college and professional athletes.

2) Break, or bend, a rim in a high school gym, or a middle school gym, and one is less likely going have a readily available replacement rim, and/or someone skilled enough to quickly replace it, or repair it, than in a college gym, or a professional gym.

In an interscholastic game, a bent, or broken rim, is more likely to result in both teams (players, coaches, cheerleaders), one team that traveled to the game in an expensive bus, paid officials, paid table crew, paid police officer in the corner, paid press and photographers, and hundreds of ticket buying fans, postponing the game, turning out the gym lights, and going home, than in a collegiate, or professional game.

I see bent, and broken, rims all the time on outdoor playground backboards.

I really don't want to see such in my interscholastic gyms.

All of that stuff could have been said regarding college ball but now they are allowed. In addition, there are far more dunks in the same gym, outside of a game, and the number of equipment failures is, oh, idk, a few.

https://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/9/87...technical-foul

BillyMac - you probably enjoy https://basketballuniverse.io/dunkin...armups-exists/

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

All of that stuff could have been said regarding college ball but now they are allowed ... there are far more dunks in the same gym, outside of a game, and the number of equipment failures is a few.

Few, sure I'll agree with that, but not never.

While I personally don't agree much with the sportsmanship issue (obviously many others did), I still contend that it will be a lot easier to get the rim repaired, or replaced before (or during) an intercollegiate game, or a professional game, then before (or during) an interscholastic game.

I don't care about dunks and broken, or bent rims, in physical education classes, intramurals, or basketball practice, just dunks and broken, or bent rims, before (still illegal) and during (legal) my interscholastic game that night.

If the rim breaks, or is bent, in physical education classes the morning of my night game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I don't care, I'll get a call before my game telling me that my interscholastic game is postponed.

I do care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, fifteen minutes before my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night.

I also care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, during my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night, but it's legal and I have no control over that situation, except for a dead ball dunk, and in both cases, that would really piss me off.

Even if the rim could be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I would probably still be too late to hang out with the guys at the local watering hole.

They're not going to wait for me to order.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Few, sure I'll agree with that, but not never.

While I personally don't agree much with the sportsmanship issue (obviously many others did), I still contend that it will be a lot easier to get the rim repaired, or replaced before (or during) an intercollegiate game, or a professional game, then before (or during) an interscholastic game.

I don't care about dunks and broken, or bent rims, in physical education classes, intramurals, or basketball practice, just dunks and broken, or bent rims, before (still illegal) and during (legal) my interscholastic game that night.

If the rim breaks, or is bent, in physical education classes the morning of my night game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I don't care, I'll get a call before my game telling me that my interscholastic game is postponed.

I do care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, fifteen minutes before my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night.

I also care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, during my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night, but it's legal and I have no control over that situation, except for a dead ball dunk, and in both cases, that would really piss me off.

Even if the rim could be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I would probably still be too late to hang out with the guys at the local watering hole.

They're not going to wait for me to order.

Interesting...lots of use of the word "care." If it breaks, don't you still get paid? Game is done/rescheduled and you can get to the watering hole early.

I have had scoreboards/AP arrows/shot clocks/etc., all malfunction or not work, but have never experienced a broken rim, while officiating or playing.

Guess I have been lucky