Wrong Numbers

[Valley Man]

A23 Smith
A24 Jones

Players are listed incorrectly in both books. A23 is Jones and A24 is Smith.

Q2 .. A23 is whistled for a foul and Team A scorekeeper DOES NOT alert the official.

One minute left during halftime the table alerts the R of the error.

Admin T 2 shots .. ball at division line for B and the arrow stays where it is

Can the coach ask for the numbers NOT to be changed?
Does it matter if neither player has participated but doesn't score or have fouls?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

A23 Smith
A24 Jones

Players are listed incorrectly in both books. A23 is Jones and A24 is Smith.

Q2 .. A23 is whistled for a foul and Team A scorekeeper DOES NOT alert the official.

One minute left during halftime the table alerts the R of the error.

Admin T 2 shots .. ball at division line for B and the arrow stays where it is

Can the coach ask for the numbers NOT to be changed?
Does it matter if neither either player has participated but doesn't score or have fouls?

1) No, because either the numbers need to be changed, or the players need to change jerseys.

2) Yes (per an NFHS case / interp that many don't like), if neither also plays the second half.

[Valley Man]

Thanks Bob

For clarity

Coach we have a problem do you want to fix it?

Fix it .. penalty
Don't fix it .. they can't play in second half no penalty

Also case play? Interp? I cannot find it

[BillyMac]

3.2.2 SITUATION A: Team A properly submits its team member list and designates its five starters. However, the number for each team member is incorrect. The error is not detected until after the game has started. RULING: Only one team technical foul is charged regardless of the number of players and substitutes not wearing the number indicated in the scorebook. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook or change the scorebook number to that which he/she is wearing. Any substitutes who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the scorebook will not result in a penalty as the one maximum technical has already been charged to the team for an administrative infraction. (10-1-1 Penalty)

3.2.2 SITUATION B: Three minutes before the game starts, it is discovered: (a) two Team B members have wrong numbers in the scorebook; or (b) two Team B team members are wearing the same number. RULING: In (a), if either or both team member’s number is changed in the scorebook, one technical foul is charged to Team B. If there is no request for change or if neither becomes a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty. In (b), a technical foul is charged to Team B upon discovery of the identical numbers. Only one team member may wear a given number; the other must change to a number not already in use before participating. (10-1-2)

3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2. The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A. In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. If No. 25 attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. (3-2-2b; 10-1-2b)

3.2.2 SITUATION D: Team A properly submits its team member list and designates the five starters as required at least 10 minutes before the scheduled start of the game. Anytime thereafter, either before the game starts or during the game, the coach asks the scorer to change a number in the scorebook: (a) so it corresponds to what the team member is wearing; (b) because a player’s shirt has excessive blood on it; or (c) because a player’s shirt is torn. RULING: In (a), a technical foul is charged to Team A. In (b) and (c), the shirt is changed and the number change made in the scorebook without any penalty.

3.4.3 SITUATION C: Starter, A1, has brought the wrong uniform and with eight minutes on the clock prior to the start of the game, switches with A15 and now is wearing a legal jersey but a new number. With two minutes on the clock prior to the start of the game, it is discovered that starter, B1, is wearing a different jersey than indicated in the scorebook. It is confirmed that a wrong number was provided to the official scorer and a change is made to reflect the correct number in the scorebook. RULING: Both Team A and B are charged with a technical foul for changing a number in the scorebook and will begin the game with one team foul toward the bonus. No free throws are awarded and the game will begin at the point of interruption, which is the opening jump ball. COMMENT: When each team is assessed one technical foul prior to the game, a double technical foul has occurred, as this is considered “approximately the same time

[BillyMac]

Illegal numbers:

3.4.3 SITUATION B: A7 reports to the official scorer to enter the game wearing a jersey with the No. 7, which is the number listed in the scorebook. A7 (a) enters the game and participates; (b) changes into a legal jersey and enters the game later; or (c) goes back to the bench and never enters the game. RULING: In (a), a direct technical foul is charged to the Team A head coach for the illegal uniform. Team B is awarded two free throws and a division-line throw-in, and the Team A head coach loses his/her coaching-box privileges. In (b), a number must be changed in the scorebook. Therefore, Team A is assessed a team technical foul when the change occurs, but the coach does not lose his/her coaching-box privileges. In (c), no penalty is assessed when the player never enters the game and the scorebook is unaltered. (10-1-2c; 10-5-4)

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 2: A team has members with No. 0 and No. 00 listed in the scorebook and it is discovered (a) with 14 minutes on the clock prior to the game, (b) with 8 minutes on the clock prior to the game or (c) after the game starts. RULING: In (a), changes can be made without penalty. In (b), if a number is changed in the scorebook, a team technical is charged. The offended team is awarded two free throws and a throw-in at the division line to begin the game. The arrow is toward the offending team. If no changes are made to the scorebook, no infraction has occurred. In (c), after the game starts, there is no infraction if only one of the team members (No. 0 or No. 00) participates. If the second team member wishes to participate, the result is an illegal number when "discovered." The penalty is a direct technical foul on the head coach for an illegal uniform. Two free throws and a division line throw-in for the offended team and loss of coaching box privileges for the offending coach. The second team member (with the illegal uniform number) may participate without further penalty and is NOT required to change his/her number. Another possibility exists after the game starts when one of the team members wants to change his/her number prior to participating. The result is a team technical foul (no loss of coaching box) for changing the scorebook. COMMENT: No team should have both No. 0 and No. 00 on its regular roster. The infraction is likely due to bringing a player up or down a level. Therefore, it is possible the team has access to other legal uniforms to replace a uniform with an illegal number. (3-4-3d; 10-1-2; 10-5-4)

1999-2000 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 11: Ten minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game, the Referee checks the scorebook for Team B and finds starters checked included player’s identified by number as 2, 35, 00, 31 and 0. RULING: A technical foul is assessed Team B for having 00 and 0 in the book. While 0 and 00 are legal numbers, a team may not have both 0 and 00 on the team roster. Either player No. 00 or player No. 0 will be required to change jersey numbers prior to being eligible for participation. (3-4-3, 10-1-2)

[MechanicGuy]

What if the players say their names were wrong and they are wearing the correct jerseys? Can they switch names for the rest of the game w/o penalty?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

... Can they switch names for the rest of the game w/o penalty?

Who's Tom and who's Dick?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Who's Tom and who's Dick?

I think that you and I are the only ones who may remember the Van Arsdale Twins. They had played together from JrHS through college. It was not until they reached the NBA finally played on different teams except for the 1976-77 season, their last year playing, with the Phoenix Sun.

MTD, Sr.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I think that you and I are the only ones who may remember the Van Arsdale Twins. They had played together from JrHS through college. It was not until they reached the NBA finally played on different teams except for the 1976-77 season, their last year playing, with the Phoenix Sun.



MTD, Sr.

Don't short change me. Knew who they were as soon as I saw the matching faces and blonde hair.

My first favorite NBA player was a guy named Lew Alcindor who played for the Milwaukee Bucks. First favorite baseball player was a San Francisco Giant outfielder by the name of Bobby Bonds.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[FlasherZ]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

What if the players say their names were wrong and they are wearing the correct jerseys? Can they switch names for the rest of the game w/o penalty?

I'll admit my first thought was "who snitched on the names being wrong?" Since most scorekeeping is done via number, what's the likelihood that someone will raise the issue of the names being wrong?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by FlasherZ

I'll admit my first thought was "who snitched on the names being wrong?" Since most scorekeeping is done via number, what's the likelihood that someone will raise the issue of the names being wrong?

The home team scorekeeper likely knows the home team's player names.

The visiting team scorekeeper likely knows the visiting team's player names.

Do they have the integrity to "snitch" on their own team?

[FlasherZ]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The home team scorekeeper likely knows the home team's player names.

The visiting team scorekeeper likely knows the visiting team's player names.

Do they have the integrity to "snitch" on their own team?

I'd ask if it really matters?

Obviously, the numbers are critical for the scorekeeping. Does it really matter whether the names are right or not?

In junior high, we commonly find everything from last names only, to first names only, to initials, to blank names. Is there anything that says the names must be right? Are you going to call a technical foul if the scorekeeper listed "Baker, Jim" but his full legal name as listed on his passport is "James Lee Baker"?

The only reason I can think of would be for an ejection/discipline report, but I typically refer to them by number there as well.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by FlasherZ

I'll admit my first thought was "who snitched on the names being wrong?" Since most scorekeeping is done via number, what's the likelihood that someone will raise the issue of the names being wrong?

A Number is assigned to a Player; a Player is not assigned to a Number. Therefore the Names are correct and the Numbers are incorrect.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

My first favorite NBA player was a guy named Lew Alcindor who played for the Milwaukee Bucks. First favorite baseball player was a San Francisco Giant outfielder by the name of Bobby Bonds.

Bobby Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame.

First favorite NBA player for me was Bill Russell.

First favorite MLB player was Carl Yastrzemski.

Second favorite MLB player was a teammate, and fellow outfielder with Bobby Bonds, Willy Mays.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

What if the players say their names were wrong and they are wearing the correct jerseys? Can they switch names for the rest of the game w/o penalty?

There may not be a penalty under NFHS basketball rules, but I know the state AA that I work with has a by-law that punishes playing under an incorrect/assumed name rather severely.

I would highly discourage this kind of thinking about how to not enforce the proper penalty. Two free throws is trivial.