Throw in Spot

[Indianaref]

This may have been addressed already, so sorry if it is redundant.

Ball goes OOB in Team A frontcourt, officials are unsure of who it went off of so they go with the arrow which belongs to Team A. Is the throw-in spot where the ball went OOB's or is it now treated as a held ball and goes to one of the four spots?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Ball goes OOB in Team A frontcourt, officials are unsure of who it went off of so they go with the arrow which belongs to Team A. Is the throw-in spot where the ball went OOB's or is it now treated as a held ball and goes to one of the four spots?

Great question.

There's a similar situation in a 2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation, but with a timeout rather than held ball AP arrow.

In the interpretation one goes to the "original" reason for the whistle, thus not one of the four "special spots", but the where the ball went out of bounds.

2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 1: Team A has possession of the ball in its frontcourt when the ball is deflected out of bounds by Team B. The ball exits the court along the end line close to the right sideline. Team A is granted an inbounds at the location where the ball exited the court. While Team A is trying to inbounds the ball, Team A calls a time-out. After the time-out, the inbounds spot (a) returns to the same spot; (b) moves to the designated spot 3 feet outside of the lane along the end line. RULING: (a) Correct procedure; (b) Incorrect procedure. COMMENT: Since the ball was not on the court, the time-out did not create a “stoppage in play” that would move the inbounds spot to one of the four designated spots. Play will continue from the inbounds spot established by the deflection of the ball by Team B. (7-5-2, 7-5-3a)

I'm assuming that it's the same for this situation, out of bounds and held ball AP arrow, not one of the four "special spots", but the where the ball went out of bounds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

This may have been addressed already, so sorry if it is redundant.

Ball goes OOB in Team A frontcourt, officials are unsure of who it went off of so they go with the arrow which belongs to Team A. Is the throw-in spot where the ball went OOB's or is it now treated as a held ball and goes to one of the four spots?

What caused play to be stopped? An out-of-bounds violation. First of all if that happens to you, let us all know. Secondly, if that is the case, what is the intent of the rule? The rule clearly is so that you treat out-of-bounds plays like we did before. So I would say it is exactly the same as in the past.

Peace

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What caused play to be stopped? An out-of-bounds violation. First of all if that happens to you, let us all know. Secondly, if that is the case, what is the intent of the rule? The rule clearly is so that you treat out-of-bounds plays like we did before. So I would say it is exactly the same as in the past.

Peace

This was what I was thinking until I was over thinking it

[bob jenkins]

"unsure who touched it last" and "held ball" are not the same thing, even though both use the arrow to determine possession.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"unsure who touched it last" and "held ball" are not the same thing, even though both use the arrow to determine possession.

Agree.

7-3-1: If the ball goes out of bounds and was last touched simultaneously by two opponents, both of whom are inbounds or out of bounds, or if the official is in doubt as to who last touched the ball or if the officials disagree, play must be resumed by the team entitled to the alternating-possession throw-in at the spot out of bounds nearest to where the simultaneous violation occurred.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"unsure who touched it last" and "held ball" are not the same thing, even though both use the arrow to determine possession.

Yes correct, thought process not well today

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"unsure who touched it last" and "held ball" are not the same thing, even though both use the arrow to determine possession.

So we're using the jump/held ball signal even though it's neither a jump ball, nor is it a held ball.

In this case we first stop the clock with an open hand (for out of bounds), and then go to the jump/held ball signal, even though it's neither a jump ball, nor is it a held ball, but is an alternating possession situation.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So we're using the jump/held ball signal even though it's neither a jump ball, nor is it a held ball.

In this case we first stop the clock with an open hand (for out of bounds), and then go to the jump/held ball signal, even though it's neither a jump ball, nor is it a held ball, but is an alternating possession situation.

For a real held ball or a real jump ball, we go straight to the jump/held ball signal, skipping the open hand (for out of bounds) signal, and then either use the alternating possession arrow, or have a real jump ball.

You're likely not going straight to the held ball signal. Most cases you are stopping clock, conferring with partner(s), then signaling held ball. Also likely needing to explain things to the table and coaches ,put ball back in play and make sure the arrow gets switched after the throw-in ends.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For a real held ball or a real jump ball, we go straight to the jump/held ball signal, skipping the open hand (for out of bounds) signal, and then either use the alternating possession arrow, or have a real jump ball.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

You're likely not going straight to the held ball signal. Most cases you are stopping clock, conferring with partner(s), then signaling held ball. Also likely needing to explain things to the table and coaches ,put ball back in play and make sure the arrow gets switched after the throw-in ends.

Well, the mechanic now is to always stop the clock with an open hand or a closed fist. They got rid of the "held ball" signal as a stop clock mechanism. I do not like that and still cannot do it the way they want, but some of us still are struggling with the open fist first, then held ball signal. It used to be officials did not know how to go to the held ball signal, but they changed the mechanic that used to look indecisive to me and others.

Peace

[SNIPERBBB]

I like the new procedure especially when there's a double whistle similar to block/charge plays.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

You're likely not going straight to the held ball signal.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well, the mechanic now is to always stop the clock with an open hand or a closed fist. They got rid of the "held ball" signal as a stop clock mechanism.

Thanks guys, I screwed up my earlier post.

Actually viewed a recent IAABO video with a straight to the held ball signal that fooled me.

I fixed it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They got rid of the "held ball" signal as a stop clock mechanism. I do not like that and still cannot do it the way they want, but some of us still are struggling with the open fist first, then held ball signal.

Agree.

It only took me about a month (I thought that it would take longer) to get use to reporting fouls with two hands instead of one hand (and saying, "Twenty-one" instead of, "Two. One".

It's been a few years now since the change, but I'm still inconsistent with the new held ball/jump ball signal sequence.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I like the new procedure especially when there's a double whistle similar to block/charge plays.

This has some merit to it.

[Camron Rust]

The consensus around here was that the change and the reason provided for the change made no sense. We stayed with the held ball signal.

Before, you actually knew if your partner across the court had a held-ball like you or some other call. If you both came up with held ball, you knew exactly where to go next.

Now, you have no idea. Does your partner have a held ball, a violation, or a timeout??? You don't know until you talk. At least with the held ball signal, you then could jump to the discussion of which came first.