Step Out Of Bounds ...

[BillyMac]

I know that we’ve already gone over this, but it was a small part of a long thread on all the rule changes and I wanted to make a single thread about it.

My local new rules meeting isn’t until Wednesday, October 18, 2023.

I was officiating an odd autumn in-district interscholastic middle school game last week. Since we haven’t had our local new rules meeting yet, nor have the coaches, we were told to only use the new bonus rule (fifth of quarter) and no other new rules (at least not until after our meeting).

At halftime, my partner, who wasn't aware of any of the rule changes, asked what they were. I quickly went through the list and then when I came to the new rule regarding stepping out of bounds I hesitated and stumbled, realizing that I really didn't understand the new rule.

2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rule Change

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation. Rationale: Allows a player to step out of bounds if they gain no advantage and penalizes a team only if they gain an advantage by leaving the court and returning to avoid a violation or to be the first to touch the ball.

9-3-3: Establishing that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation allows the game to continue without stoppage when the player’s actions did not create an advantage. When an advantage is gained by a player purposely leaving the court and being the first one to touch the ball or leaving the court to avoid a violation, an advantage is gained, and a violation has occurred.

Why the rule change?

Why wait for the touch inbounds?

We already have this rule:

9-3-3: A player must not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Or has it been deleted and replaced by above?

If a player sneaks off the court (maybe trying to blend in with his bench) we can call the 9-3-3 violation as soon as we realize that he’s gained an advantage, and don’t have to wait for a ball touch inbounds. The player left the court for an unauthorized reason and gained an advantage. Violation!

Now if a player leaves the court due to his momentum, an authorized reason, and comes back and is the first to ball touch inbounds, that’s a still legal? Right?

I’d like to get this new rule straight in my mind before our local meeting so I know to ask pertinent questions.

In the earlier thread, JRutledge was kind enough to post the NCAA rule for comparison.

NCAA Rule Section 3 Player Out of Bounds

Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of
bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the
end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after returning to the playing court.
b. A player whose momentum causes that player to go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if that player reestablishes one foot inbounds prior to touching the ball.

NFHS Caseplays Player Out Of Bounds Leaving The Court

9.3.3 SITUATION A: A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket. RULING: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. (9-3-3)

9.3.3 SITUATION B: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen. RULING: The official shall call a violation on A3 as soon as he/she steps out of bounds. The ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred.

9.3.3 SITUATION C: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight. RULING: B3 is called for a leaving-the-floor violation. Team A will receive the ball out of bounds at a spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the violation is on the defense, the ball does not become dead until the try has ended. If the try is successful, it will count. (6-7-9 Exception d)

[SNIPERBBB]

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

NFHS being Silly NFHS. Now we have the situation where 9.3.3 B where you have L observing the player going OOB now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

Only reason I can think of for the change is it was being called too much or wrongly. Don't know if this will reduce the amount of times it is called but I can guarantee it would be called .much more wrongly that it will be called correctly.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We already have this rule:

9-3-3: A player must not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Or has it been deleted and replaced by above?

If the "old" 9-3-3 has been deleted, does that mean that this situation (below) is now legal if A3 is not the first to touch the ball?

A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen.

And that this situation (below) is still illegal?

A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

Thanks.

I never had any problems with the old rules.

The "momentum" rule was easy to enforce by ignoring.

Note: Unlike the NCAA, the NFHS doesn't mention "momentum".

Does that mean that we now have to call it if the "momentum" out of bounds player is the first to touch the ball after back in bounds? Has he gained an advantage if allowed to do so?

I've only observed the "going out of bounds to use a screen" rule called once in forty-four years. Never called it myself.

On a "going out of bounds to use a screen" situation, do we now have to wait for the first to touch the ball after back in bounds to call the violation?

It looks like the "avoid three seconds" rule is still in place.

Thank God for small favors.

[SNIPERBBB]

NFHS rule uses "own volition".

ART. 3 . . . A player shall not step out of bounds under the player's own volition and then become the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court or to avoid a violation. PENALTY:

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

NFHS being Silly NFHS. Now we have the situation where 9.3.3 B where you have L observing the player going OOB now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

Only reason I can think of for the change is it was being called too much or wrongly. Don't know if this will reduce the amount of times it is called but I can guarantee it would be called .much more wrongly that it will be called correctly.

It matches it yup with the college rule and it's easy to enforce. And, imo, it's more fitting -- the old rule wasn't called because A didn't really gain an advantage if no one passed them the ball.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the "old" 9-3-3 has been deleted, does that mean that this situation (below) is now legal if A3 is not the first to touch the ball?

A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen.

And that this situation (below) is still illegal?

A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket.

Yes and Yes. The second case (no matter where it might be posted) is a three-second violation case, not a "going out of bounds" violation case.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

NFHS rule uses "own volition".

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes and Yes.

Thanks and thanks.

[BillyMac]

I've changed my Misunderstood Basketball Rules list.

A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court and has gained an advantage has committed a violation. A player whose momentum causes that player to accidentally go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if an advantage is not gained and such player immediately returns inbounds. That player must have something in, and nothing out. It is not necessary to have both feet back inbounds.

And I've deleted this from the list: It is a violation for a player to intentionally leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

But we still have this:

It is a technical foul for a player to leave the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust, or intimidation. It is a technical foul for a player to purposely or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Everything sound "kosher" now?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If a player sneaks off the court (maybe trying to blend in with his bench) ...

So it such a player is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, this is a violation.

But if such a player is not the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, it's legal.

[Valley Man]

I dont have my new case books with me today, but this case play

9.3.3 SITUATION C: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight. RULING: B3 is called for a leaving-the-floor violation. Team A will receive the ball out of bounds at a spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the violation is on the defense, the ball does not become dead until the try has ended. If the try is successful, it will count. (6-7-9 Exception d)

Has been changed to being one situation with A/B/C plays once of which is made try ignore B3 going out of bounds, one that is B3 is first to touch the missed try and it is a violation

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I dont have my new case books with me today, but this case play

9.3.3 SITUATION C: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight. RULING: B3 is called for a leaving-the-floor violation. Team A will receive the ball out of bounds at a spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the violation is on the defense, the ball does not become dead until the try has ended. If the try is successful, it will count. (6-7-9 Exception d)

Has been changed to being one situation with A/B/C plays once of which is made try ignore B3 going out of bounds, one that is B3 is first to touch the missed try and it is a violation

I'm having trouble deciphering your last sentence.

[SNIPERBBB]

These are the new caseplays

PLAYER OUT OF BOUNDS – LEAVING THE COURT
9.3.3 SITUATION A:
A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the three-second lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's bas- ket.
RULING: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court to avoid a violation.

9.3.3 SITUATION B:
A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 inten- tionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have the defender detained by the double screen. (a) A3 receives a pass as soon as A3 re-enters the court; (b) A3 does not receive a pass and play continues.
RULING: In (a), the official shall call a violation on A3 as soon as A3 catches the pass. The ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred. In (b), no violation has occurred and play continues.

9.3.3 SITUATION C:
A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 in- tentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight.
RULING: No violation for the defense leaving the court to avoid a screen unless B3 is the first player to touch the ball when returning to the court.

[Valley Man]

Thanks .. I should not have tried to answer shutting my computer down and leaving

I had just skimmed the casebook, but as you can see even rebounding a player cannot go out of bounds intentionally and be the first to touch the ball

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If a player sneaks off the court (maybe trying to blend in with his bench)

[/I]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So it such a player is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, this is a violation.

But if such a player is not the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, it's legal.

Not correct.

The violation for being the first to touch happens when a player leaves trying to avoid a screen, or making a too-wide cut along the baseline, etc -- the stuff that happens ten times a season.

It's still a T to leave to hide among the bench, or to go out one door and enter another or ... -- the stuff that happens less than once per officiating career.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's still a T to leave to hide among the bench, or to go out one door and enter another or ..., the stuff that happens less than once per officiating career.

It is a technical foul for a player to purposely or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

I usually think of this rule involving an inbounder deceitfully delaying his return inbounds to gain some type of advantage, but other "odd" things can occur that can also be penalized with a technical foul.