When to step in?

[hooper]

Here's a situation I saw recently in a junior high game:

Team A's coach and fans are riding the refs throughout the first half. In the second half, the ref addresses the fans about their behavior. Moments later, ref calls a foul on Team B and Team A's coach says "That's it. Fouled out!" The scorer's table says no, one more foul before fouling out. (Scorer's table is run by parents and volunteers from home team, which is Team B.) Coach approaches scorer's table and begins to argue. Fan (and relative of scorekeeper) from Team B comes to aid of scorekeepers. Team A's coach gets up into Team B's fan's face and says he'll see him in the parking lot after the game. Refs ignore and continue game.

What would you have done?

[refTN]

I whack the coach and depending on the reaction of the fan after I tell him/her to go back to his/her seat decides whether they get to finish watching the game or they get to hear about it when everybody comes out to the parking lot to leave. I also tell the coach not to even come close to talking to my scorer's table again, and I emphasize MY scoring table as to say, "They are with me, and if you mess with them you are messing with me!"

I had a similar sitch almost a year ago in our YBOA state tournament. coach doesn't believe his best player has 3 fouls instead of two and starts saying that it is wrong, and I tell him that is what we have in the official book and that is what we are going with (this is at halftime). Well the 3rd qtr. starts and he persists so I whack him, then just a couple of minutes later my partner whacks him, and he refuses to leave. Well we eventually get him out of there, but it was not pretty.

I guess the moral of the story is don't let coaches harass your table members. Take care of it at once.

[WooPigSooie]

This is a situation related to this topic. VERY small town school. We are talking a gas station and a stop sign. Gym is terrible. Only coach on the bench is the head coach. School cant afford to pay an assistant and there is not team manager/book keeper. Scoreboard tells the score, time, quarter, and who is in the bonus. Basically, there is no way for the coach to know how many fouls are against a certain player without direct contact with the book. If I am not mistaken, the head coach is not suppose to have any direct contact with the book. Can he verbally ask during the course of the game or at intermission how many fouls a certain player has?

[SMEngmann]

Originally posted by hooper
Here's a situation I saw recently in a junior high game:

Team A's coach and fans are riding the refs throughout the first half. In the second half, the ref addresses the fans about their behavior. Moments later, ref calls a foul on Team B and Team A's coach says "That's it. Fouled out!" The scorer's table says no, one more foul before fouling out. (Scorer's table is run by parents and volunteers from home team, which is Team B.) Coach approaches scorer's table and begins to argue. Fan (and relative of scorekeeper) from Team B comes to aid of scorekeepers. Team A's coach gets up into Team B's fan's face and says he'll see him in the parking lot after the game. Refs ignore and continue game.

What would you have done?

I'm telling them both that they can see each other in the parking lot right now and charging Coach A with a flagrant technical foul, assuming all of this happens before I intervene. I would have the fan removed as well. There was already a warning to the fans, no need for another (one is too many in my book). There is no excuse for a coach to not only leave his bench and go to the table, but also to berate the scorekeeper and threaten a fan, albeit one who left the stands, given how vocal he had been, he's gone.

Now, assuming I was where I was supposed to be when reporting a foul (at the table), I would've immediately whacked Coach A for his actions to the table and walked him back to his bench, explaining to him that I would confer with the scorer, and/or his book to check on the foul situation, which I would then do. If there had to be a change, I would bring both coaches together to explain the change, if not, I would verify to Coach A that the book was indeed correct. If the fan at that point came out of the stands, he'd be gone on the spot.

Once the conflict escalated, I think anything less than 2 ejections demonstrates a lack of game control. The coach and the fans had been problems all night, this is the perfect chance to rein them in and regain control of the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WooPigSooie
This is a situation related to this topic. VERY small town school. We are talking a gas station and a stop sign. Gym is terrible. Only coach on the bench is the head coach. School cant afford to pay an assistant and there is not team manager/book keeper. Scoreboard tells the score, time, quarter, and who is in the bonus. Basically, there is no way for the coach to know how many fouls are against a certain player without direct contact with the book. If I am not mistaken, the head coach is not suppose to have any direct contact with the book. Can he verbally ask during the course of the game or at intermission how many fouls a certain player has?

By rule, the head coach can't go the bench for information; automatic "T" if he does. In a case like this though, as long as he just approaches the scorer, asks and gets his info, and then goes back to his bench, and he isn't doing it over and over and over or bothering/disturbing the scorer, it ain't a nit I'm gonna pick.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by hooper
Here's a situation I saw recently in a junior high game:

Team A's coach and fans are riding the refs throughout the first half. In the second half, the ref addresses the fans about their behavior. Moments later, ref calls a foul on Team B and Team A's coach says "That's it. Fouled out!" The scorer's table says no, one more foul before fouling out. (Scorer's table is run by parents and volunteers from home team, which is Team B.) Coach approaches scorer's table and begins to argue. Fan (and relative of scorekeeper) from Team B comes to aid of scorekeepers. Team A's coach gets up into Team B's fan's face and says he'll see him in the parking lot after the game. Refs ignore and continue game.

What would you have done?

I woulda stopped the team A coach from riding me as soon as he started. He sureashell wouldn't have been doing it "throughout the first half". If he's getting away with that nonsense, of course he thinks that he can also get in a scorer's face, incite the crowd, etc without worrying about anything happening. It turned out that he was right too- obviously and unfortunately.

It sounds to me like you either had newer officials who were very unsure of themselves on this game, or officials who were lacking in...um...testicular fortitude.