2 person mechanic - high school

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bbman

If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?

You are doing 2 person, not three person. It is silly to me to act like the lead never sees the ball go in the basket. For one you have to cover a lot of area as opposed to 3 person. And if the lead can see the ball go in at 3 person, so can a 2 person lead. And players often tell you when the ball goes in. If they stop going for a rebound, chances are the ball went in. You also can see it out of your peripheral vision which will mean you can concentrate on the rebounding action at the basket. You cannot even in 3 person be so laser-focused that you are not aware of anything else around. You have to kind of be aware of other things and have an opinion about those things. That is different than ball watching the ball at the top of the key, but you can know the ball is at the top of the key.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is silly to me to act like the lead never sees the ball go in the basket ... And players often tell you when the ball goes in. If they stop going for a rebound, chances are the ball went in. You also can see it out of your peripheral vision which will mean you can concentrate on the rebounding action at the basket ... You have to kind of be aware of other things and have an opinion about those things.

Pretty much agree with everything that JRutledge stated.

However, there are times, when as the lead, especially in a block charge situation when I'm calling a block, and there are bodies on the floor after the train wreck, and I get a strong feeling that there's a good possibility that the ball went in (players, bench, crowd reactions, etc.), I really appreciate my partner confirming (orally or by signal) that the "ball went in the basket".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Pretty much agree with everything that JRutledge stated.

However, there are times, when as the lead, especially in a block charge situation when I'm calling a block, and there are bodies on the floor after the train wreck, and I get a strong feeling that there's a good possibility that the ball went in (players, bench, crowd reactions, etc.), I really appreciate my partner confirming (orally or by signal) that the "ball went in the basket".

This happens in 3 person too. Even as an outside official this can happen where they do not see the ball go in. Heck I have been known to personally ask. But it is not always an either/or situation like people love to make it out to be. But if the ball goes in and my partner has not signaled, I go to them and say what you stated. Then let them determine what we are doing after the call.

Also if you did not signal, the calling officials like normal should tell everyone the result of that shot. Either "no basket" or "count it" to the table, then report the specific foul and result.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Heck I have been known to personally ask ... But if the ball goes in and my partner has not signaled, I go to them and say what you stated. Then let them determine what we are doing after the call. Also if you did not signal, the calling officials like normal should tell everyone the result of that shot. Either "no basket" or "count it" to the table, then report the specific foul and result.

Perfect followup post JRutledge.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...
However, there are times, when as the lead, especially in a block charge situation when I'm calling a block, and there are bodies on the floor after the train wreck, and I get a strong feeling that there's a good possibility that the ball went in (players, bench, crowd reactions, etc.), I really appreciate my partner confirming (orally or by signal) that the "ball went in the basket".

Big difference between that play, where you are most likely on top of the play and/or looking down and can't see the basket as opposed to a 3-pointer from your primary where you should be wide and from there can see everything from the floor to the rim once you turn you eyes towards the lane.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Big difference between that play, where you are most likely on top of the play and/or looking down and can't see the basket as opposed to a 3-pointer from your primary where you should be wide and from there can see everything from the floor to the rim once you turn you eyes towards the lane.

Agree.

Only problem could be on a late contested three point try, where the defender decides to over aggressively box out (protect the shooter all the way back down to the floor) the shooter with two bodies ending up on the floor. I could see myself occasionally (more likely rarely) needing help from my partner to confirm if the ball went in the basket.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

Only problem could be on a late contested three point try, where the defender decides to over aggressively box out (protect the shooter all the way back down to the floor) the shooter with two bodies ending up on the floor. I could see myself occasionally (more likely rarely) needing help from my partner to confirm if the ball went in the basket.

The OP said he couldn't see the basket and what's under the basket at the same time. If he has taken his eyes off the shooter towards the goal, there is no reason he can't see the rebounding action and the status of the ball simultaneously.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The OP said he couldn't see the basket and what's under the basket at the same time. If he has taken his eyes off the shooter towards the goal, there is no reason he can't see the rebounding action and the status of the ball simultaneously.

Agree.

My most recent post was a different situation with a possible foul on the three point shooter that ended with bodies on the floor.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is silly to me to act like the lead never sees the ball go in the basket. You have to kind of be aware of other things and have an opinion about those things. That is different than ball watching the ball at the top of the key ...

Any general statement that the lead should always (opposite of never) be able to see if the ball goes in the basket, while generally true, may have some rare exceptions, which is exactly why we have a partner on our team.

Many of us have probably worked at least one one person game in our careers, and we know how difficult it can be to see everything (because we can't).

[JRutledge]

The time when it is probably harder to see the ball go in from the lead is a three-pointer in the corner and you have to watch the defender if there is one run at the shooter. You often have to stay with that play longer. Sometimes it is wide open. But either way, if you are wider as you should be, you can turn if there is no threat to the basket and rebounding area. The Trail should also be prepared to help in those situations as no one else might be watching. Again, get open looks and try to see the entire play. Rebounding under the basket can come from the Trail too. And honestly, there are times when as Trail I might be focused on the rebounding, I do not automatically see the ball go in. You have to do so much more in 2 person to cover plays than in 3 person.

Peace