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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 19, 2023, 07:50pm
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If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?
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Old Mon Jun 19, 2023, 08:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbman View Post
If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?
Also the lead and the T. Use your peripheral vision, and/or watch the actions of the players.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 03:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbman View Post
If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?
If a 3 is being attempted from the Lead’s PCA in 2-man, then the Lead has the shooter and any defenders. The Trail must recognize that the Lead is occupied with this action (signaled by the Lead indicating a 3 point attempt by raising one arm), and shift his focus to the rebounding action in the FT lane.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 05:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbman View Post
If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?
I could always see both. We don't have to be lasered focus on one object. There are 10 players, 4 boundary lines, a division line, and a ball. We have to be able to look at at more than one thing at a time.

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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 10:18am.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 12:22pm
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Just an educated opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbman View Post
If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?
You are doing 2 person, not three person. It is silly to me to act like the lead never sees the ball go in the basket. For one you have to cover a lot of area as opposed to 3 person. And if the lead can see the ball go in at 3 person, so can a 2 person lead. And players often tell you when the ball goes in. If they stop going for a rebound, chances are the ball went in. You also can see it out of your peripheral vision which will mean you can concentrate on the rebounding action at the basket. You cannot even in 3 person be so laser-focused that you are not aware of anything else around. You have to kind of be aware of other things and have an opinion about those things. That is different than ball watching the ball at the top of the key, but you can know the ball is at the top of the key.

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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 02:08pm
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Peripheral Vision ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It is silly to me to act like the lead never sees the ball go in the basket ... And players often tell you when the ball goes in. If they stop going for a rebound, chances are the ball went in. You also can see it out of your peripheral vision which will mean you can concentrate on the rebounding action at the basket ... You have to kind of be aware of other things and have an opinion about those things.
Pretty much agree with everything that JRutledge stated.

However, there are times, when as the lead, especially in a block charge situation when I'm calling a block, and there are bodies on the floor after the train wreck, and I get a strong feeling that there's a good possibility that the ball went in (players, bench, crowd reactions, etc.), I really appreciate my partner confirming (orally or by signal) that the "ball went in the basket".
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 02:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Pretty much agree with everything that JRutledge stated.

However, there are times, when as the lead, especially in a block charge situation when I'm calling a block, and there are bodies on the floor after the train wreck, and I get a strong feeling that there's a good possibility that the ball went in (players, bench, crowd reactions, etc.), I really appreciate my partner confirming (orally or by signal) that the "ball went in the basket".
This happens in 3 person too. Even as an outside official this can happen where they do not see the ball go in. Heck I have been known to personally ask. But it is not always an either/or situation like people love to make it out to be. But if the ball goes in and my partner has not signaled, I go to them and say what you stated. Then let them determine what we are doing after the call.

Also if you did not signal, the calling officials like normal should tell everyone the result of that shot. Either "no basket" or "count it" to the table, then report the specific foul and result.

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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 02:29pm
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Ask, And It Shall Be Given (Matthew 7:7) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Heck I have been known to personally ask ... But if the ball goes in and my partner has not signaled, I go to them and say what you stated. Then let them determine what we are doing after the call. Also if you did not signal, the calling officials like normal should tell everyone the result of that shot. Either "no basket" or "count it" to the table, then report the specific foul and result.
Perfect followup post JRutledge.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 03:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
...
However, there are times, when as the lead, especially in a block charge situation when I'm calling a block, and there are bodies on the floor after the train wreck, and I get a strong feeling that there's a good possibility that the ball went in (players, bench, crowd reactions, etc.), I really appreciate my partner confirming (orally or by signal) that the "ball went in the basket".
Big difference between that play, where you are most likely on top of the play and/or looking down and can't see the basket as opposed to a 3-pointer from your primary where you should be wide and from there can see everything from the floor to the rim once you turn you eyes towards the lane.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2023, 04:15pm
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Protect The Shooter All The Way Back Down To The Floor ...

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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Big difference between that play, where you are most likely on top of the play and/or looking down and can't see the basket as opposed to a 3-pointer from your primary where you should be wide and from there can see everything from the floor to the rim once you turn you eyes towards the lane.
Agree.

Only problem could be on a late contested three point try, where the defender decides to over aggressively box out (protect the shooter all the way back down to the floor) the shooter with two bodies ending up on the floor. I could see myself occasionally (more likely rarely) needing help from my partner to confirm if the ball went in the basket.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree.

Only problem could be on a late contested three point try, where the defender decides to over aggressively box out (protect the shooter all the way back down to the floor) the shooter with two bodies ending up on the floor. I could see myself occasionally (more likely rarely) needing help from my partner to confirm if the ball went in the basket.
The OP said he couldn't see the basket and what's under the basket at the same time. If he has taken his eyes off the shooter towards the goal, there is no reason he can't see the rebounding action and the status of the ball simultaneously.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2023, 08:26am
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Rare Exceptions ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
The OP said he couldn't see the basket and what's under the basket at the same time. If he has taken his eyes off the shooter towards the goal, there is no reason he can't see the rebounding action and the status of the ball simultaneously.
Agree.

My most recent post was a different situation with a possible foul on the three point shooter that ended with bodies on the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It is silly to me to act like the lead never sees the ball go in the basket. You have to kind of be aware of other things and have an opinion about those things. That is different than ball watching the ball at the top of the key ...
Any general statement that the lead should always (opposite of never) be able to see if the ball goes in the basket, while generally true, may have some rare exceptions, which is exactly why we have a partner on our team.

Many of us have probably worked at least one one person game in our careers, and we know how difficult it can be to see everything (because we can't).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 09:02am.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 21, 2023, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbman View Post
If lead is watching the ball go into the basket, who’s watching action under the basket?

The trail.

Plus, if the lead is positioned correctly by mirroring the ball (and this is a big reason why we mirror the ball), the lead will be able to see a lot more of the action towards the lane. If the lead doesn't mirror the ball, they have to turn their vision so far out to cover the 3-pointer, they lose sight of anything towards the lane. Instead, they see the shooter and what is behind them (spectators, bleachers, or a wall). If they move out to the 3-point line, they instead see the shooter and at least half of the court.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 11:41am.
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