Throw-in

[Zoochy]

Team A has an End-line throw-in in their back-court. A1 is standing on the table side of the 'painted area' and the Trail official is standing on the other side of the 'painted area.'
Should the official rotate to the same side as A1 OR is it allowable, in NFHS, for the Trail official to not rotate and bounce the ball across the 'painted area' to A1?

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Team A has an End-line throw-in in their back-court. A1 is standing on the table side of the 'painted area' and the Trail official is standing on the other side of the 'painted area.'
Should the official rotate to the same side as A1 OR is it allowable, in NFHS, for the Trail official to not rotate and bounce the ball across the 'painted area' to A1?

Hey, Zooch:

According to the 2021-23 Officials Manual, 5.2.2.A.3 "In the backcourt, the new Trail is administering official. The trail official may need to change sides of the court depending on the throw-in spot," so I would suggest there is no provision for the new Trail to bounce the ball across the FTLE, but that doesn't mean I've never done it.

However, I can safely tell you, depending on who my partner(s) is (are), I might stand to the inside of the thrower and hand the ball to him/her. When my partner(s) see me underneath the basket, they'll know which side of the court which I will be moving from backcourt to frontcourt.

It's certainly easier to get newer officials to the right spot(s) before the throw-in starts rather than the getting the old, curmudgeonly veterans to do what they actually know what they're supposed to do (which is C becomes new Lead and L becomes new Center).

[SC Official]

NFHS you are not supposed to bounce the ball across the paint ever. That doesn’t mean that it never happens or that it makes any sense, just what the manual says.

NCAA-M we can bounce the ball across if there is no pressure but honestly most guys I work with don’t. We usually either force a switch or bring the thrower over.

NCAA-W and NBA always bounce across and never force a switch.

[Raymond]

Shoot, I would actually rather be on the opposite lane line if there's pressure. Gives you a big picture view and you have the C right there to help you ball side.



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[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Shoot, I would actually rather be on the opposite lane line if there's pressure. Gives you a bigger picture of you and you have the C right there to help you ball side.



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Yet another thing NCAA-W and NBA have right that NCAA-M doesn't see the benefit of.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

NFHS you are not supposed to bounce the ball across the paint ever. That doesn’t mean that it never happens or that it makes any sense, just what the manual says.

NCAA-M we can bounce the ball across if there is no pressure but honestly most guys I work with don’t. We usually either force a switch or bring the thrower over.

NCAA-W and NBA always bounce across and never force a switch.

I am going to ask, where does it say that?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

NFHS you are not supposed to bounce the ball across the paint ever. That doesn’t mean that it never happens or that it makes any sense, just what the manual says.

Same thing with IAABO mechanics. I've never done it in an interscholastic game assigned by my local IAABO board assigner.

That being said, I'd be lying if I said that I never did it in a Catholic middle school game, recreation, travel, AAU, etc.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Every single pregame I have includes: Put the ball in play where it goes out of bounds, or where the foul, or the violation, occurs. If the lead has to move across the lane to administer a throwin on the opposite free throw lane line extended, I don't mind moving across the basket line as the trail. And as the lead, I will pick the throwin spot where, by rule, it's supposed to be, even if it means sending my trail partner across the basket line. That's for IAABO board commissioner assigned interscholastic games.

Now back when I was working recreation, travel, etc., with double and triple headers, it was generally deemed acceptable as the lead to bounce the ball across the lane to administer throwins, thus avoiding a need for the trail to move across the basket line. Sometimes the lead "cheated" by inbounding on the "wrong" side of the lane. Keeps the game moving. Same thing for the twenty years I worked a Catholic middle school league double headers where the otherwise strict assigner allowed us to use "relaxed" mechanics.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am going to ask, where does it say that?

Peace

It was introduced 2 or 3 seasons ago. I'd have to dig out my old manuals.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It was introduced 2 or 3 seasons ago. I'd have to dig out my old manuals.

It was? Where? You know there are references to these things right?

I am looking at the book right now and not seeing anything that advocates or allows you to bounce the ball across the lane and Trail for any reason. As a matter of fact, they stopped allowing mechanically bouncing the ball several years ago.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It was? Where? You know there are references to these things right?

Yes, I think you know that I know there references for these things. LOL

But I can't find my NCAA Officials' Manual at the moment. However, I'm 99% sure this was a change that was implemented a few years ago.

And don't forgot that I just found a reference for the ball needing to be released on a try in order to reset the shot clock, even though nobody else remembered it. So I'll find it. Oh yes. I will find it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Yes, I think you know that I know there references for these things. LOL

But I can't find my NCAA Officials' Manual at the moment. However, I'm 99% sure this was a change that was implemented a few years ago.

And don't forget that I just found a reference for the ball needing to be released on a try in order to reset the shot clock, even though nobody else remembered it. So I'll find it. Oh yes. I will find it.

I know you do and should, but do not know where I can find that information about bouncing the ball across the lane. That has never been stated at any camp or summer training that I am aware of. Not bragging, but the NCAA D3 Coordinator talked about things over the past few years and wanted people to follow them as he and JD apparently were a part of drawing them up.

I am just asking because I looked up the throw-in procedures and there was no such reference. Truly not trying to be combative about it, just do not see any such reference in the CCA book. I know I could miss something, it happens. But I even remember a clinician getting on a camper for doing just that. Said it looked lazy if I recall.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know you do and should, but do not know where I can find that information about bouncing the ball across the lane.

I know you're not being combative. I was going for snark, and it didn't work very well.

But I am assuming that it was put into the officials' manual (NCAA) as a new optional mechanic in a recent edition. I just can't find my manuals. My wife cleaned my office space and now I can't lay my hands on them. If I find it, I'll post a reference.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I know you're not being combative. I was going for snark, and it didn't work very well.

But I am assuming that it was put into the officials' manual (NCAA) as a new optional mechanic in a recent edition. I just can't find my manuals. My wife cleaned my office space and now I can't lay my hands on them. If I find it, I'll post a reference.

I looked at the CCA book and it was not in the throw-in section. I also have some older ones, but as locked in as I have been, you have made me pause, but I am pretty sure that did not change. I just want to be right about what we are doing that is all.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Team A has an End-line throw-in in their back-court ...

This brings to mind another question occasionally discussed and debated here on the Forum.

To keep it simple, let's assume that your local or state association does not allow bouncing the ball across the lane on an inbound situation (the original topic of this thread).

Now let me add something to the situation, the inbound is after a timeout out after a made basket, thus no designated spot but a run-the-endline situation.

Where does the new trail "give" (disposal) the ball to the inbounder? Does the inbounder (or coach) have a choice ("No, I want it on the other side.")?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Where does the new trail "give" the ball to the inbounder? Does the inbounder (or coach) have a choice ("No, I want it on the other side.")?

I say no choice.

New trial should stay on the same side of the basket-line as when he was the old lead (before the basket and subsequent timeout).

The new trail stands on that spot during the timeout (if the officials need to get together for a short tête-à-tête discussion, leave the ball on the floor at the spot, another possibly controversial mechanic procedure).

If either, or both, coaches ask where the ball will be on the subsequent inbound, one can point to the new trail holding the ball (or the ball on the floor).

Coming out of timeout, if the inbounding team wants the ball disposal on the other side of the basket-line, "Sorry, we've already "indicated" (don't say "designated") the spot by our position on the court before and during the timeout, both teams had access to that information during the timeout, changing it now would give an unfair advantage to one team and an unfair disadvantage to the other team. I'll give the ball to the player here, my pre-timeout and timeout position, and can he can run-the-endline after that for five seconds after disposal".

Of course the explanation will be considerably shorter ("Sorry. No") if the coach doesn't complain.

This possibly controversial procedure probably isn't in any rulebook, casebook, or mechanics manual, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.