IAABO Mechanics ...

[BillyMac]

Here's the third question that I got wrong on the IAABO Refresher Exam.

Note: It's IAABO mechanics.

#82 When the 15-second warning horn sounds prior to the start of the third quarter, the Umpire should check with the official scorer for readiness which includes confirming starting players for each team to start the second half.

My answer: #82 No.
IAABO answer: #82 Yes

Here’s the citation I used to answer.

IAABO Mechanics Manual Page 20: Basic Position and Coverage Responsibilities 20) End of First Half Procedure D) When the warning horn sounds 2) Umpire a) goes to the table b) checks with the scorer and timer for readiness c) relays the ball to the referee d) assumes the Lead position in the frontcourt

Nothing in the IAABO Mechanics Manual states that the Umpire and/or scorer/timer must confirm starting players for each team to start the second half.

Is there a NFHS mechanic that states that the Umpire and/or scorer/timer must confirm starting players for each team to start the second half?

[Nevadaref]

Nope, that is the scorer’s job. The officials stay out of that until the scorer has an issue with the starters and bring it to the attention of the official.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope, that is the scorer’s job. The officials stay out of that until the scorer has an issue with the starters and bring it to the attention of the official.

We have some great scorers here in my little corner of Connecticut (love to see old time veterans at the table).

But over forty-plus years I've often wondered if (and if so, how) they always keep track of who finishes the previous quarter and who starts the new quarter (or overtime period), and if not the same, do the substitutes (or team representative) always report?

I've never (again, forty-plus years) had a scorer tell me, "He didn't report", at the start of a quarter (or overtime period). Never ever.

And I'm fairly certain that over all those years the same five that finished the previous quarter didn't always start the next quarter.

Same question about after a timeout.

Often substitutes will report, and be beckoned during a timeout (before the fifteen second warning horn), but do they always? I'm not so sure.

I've occasionally seen substitutes report and be beckoned during intermissions, but certainly not as many as I "felt in my gut" should have done so.

Like Nevadaref said, not my job, I'm not really paying attention, it's just a sneaking suspicion that I have, and I'm not about to die on that hill.

I've got more important things to concentrate on in a game.

I feel pretty good if I stop a substitute from reporting after the fifteen second warning horn.

Even better if I catch substitute not "sitting a tick".

3-3-1: Substitution: A substitute who desires to enter must report to the scorer, giving his/her number.
a. Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission or the time-out.
Note: When the substitute(s) is not properly reported, the player(s) in the game at the conclusion of the quarter when the time-out was granted must begin play for the new quarter after the time-out.
b. Substitutions between halves may be made by the substitute or a team representative.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I feel pretty good if I stop a substitute from reporting after the fifteen second warning horn.

And even then, how can I (and the scorer) be sure that the player that the coach puts "back in" off the bench was a player that actually finished the previous quarter (or before the timeout)?

[FlasherZ]

Many times it is difficult for the scorer even to recall who was in and who was out. Well-equipped gyms with modern scoreboards (Nevco wing boards, for example) usually have the players who were in during last quarter so you can compare whether they properly subbed or not. The scoreboard operator has to swap the players when they report properly.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Same question about after a timeout. Often substitutes will report, and be beckoned during a timeout (before the fifteen second warning horn), but do they always? I'm not so sure.

If, after the fifteen second warning horn sounds, a substitute simply comes out of the team huddle and walks directly out onto the court, I'm probably not noticing if he fails to report and be beckoned. I don't keep track of who goes into a timeout huddle and who comes out of a timeout huddle.

And I doubt that I would get any help from most, if not all, scorers.

On the other hand, if after the fifteen second warning horn sounds, a substitute reports to the table to be beckoned, I will definitely notice that he has reported too late, he'll have to wait until the next opportunity to substitute, and the coach will have to put "back in" off the bench the player that actually played before the timeout.

Something seems inherently unfair about that.

But to paraphrase Nevadarwef, "Not my job", so I won't lose any sleep over it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by FlasherZ

Well-equipped gyms with modern scoreboards usually have the players who were in during last quarter so you can compare whether they properly subbed or not.

Who is the "you" that you speak of?

[ilyazhito]

The officials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The officials.

So it's our responsibility to see that who goes into a timeout or intermission huddle is, or isn't, the same as who comes out of a timeout or intermission huddle?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The officials.

So if a coach takes out his six foot nine inch center (his top rebounder, top scorer, and top shot blocker) for a breather with fifty seconds to go in a close game in the third period, and sends him back in after the intermission between the third and fourth period, and said player doesn't report, and just walks out onto the court with his four teammates after the fifteen second warning horn sounds, I'm supposed to, first of all, notice, and second, send said player back until the next opportunity to substitute?

Won't that coach think that I was an overly officious official, and have few choice words for me that may get him sent to sit with the sweaty socks and smelly towels in the in the stinky locker room?

And I'm supposed to know if said player's four teammates were also the same players that ended the third period?

Now, if the supposedly impartial scorer (he notices) brings it to my attention in a timely manner, that's another story.

A few coaches get upset when I "just" send back a substitute until the next opportunity to sub who reports after the fifteen second warning horn sounds after a timeout or an intermission.

Had one coach say, "Oh. Your'e going to do that tonight. Really?".

[ilyazhito]

The timer should let the officials know if there is a problem. By default, ff no one reports to the scorer during a timeout or intermission before the horn, the same players who finished the period (or.who played before the timeout) will come back onto the court (3-3-1-a NOTE).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The timer should let the officials know if there is a problem. By default, ff no one reports to the scorer during a timeout or intermission before the horn, the same players who finished the period (or.who played before the timeout) will come back onto the court (3-3-1-a NOTE).

It's actually the scorer's responsibility.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

3-3-1: Substitution: A substitute who desires to enter must report to the scorer ... Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer ...

ilyazhito must have much more competent scorers in his Maryland/Virginia/Washington area than we have here in my little corner of Connecticut.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never (forty-plus years) had a scorer tell me, "He didn't report", at the start of a quarter, overtime period, (or timeout). Never ever.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I doubt that I would get any help from most, if not all, scorers.

And I wouldn't even bet a dime that "not reporting" never occurred in thousands of these situations over forty-plus years.

It would certainly be losing bet.

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here's the third question that I got wrong on the IAABO Refresher Exam.

Note: It's IAABO mechanics.

#82 When the 15-second warning horn sounds prior to the start of the third quarter, the Umpire should check with the official scorer for readiness which includes confirming starting players for each team to start the second half.

My answer: #82 No.
IAABO answer: #82 Yes

Here’s the citation I used to answer.

IAABO Mechanics Manual Page 20: Basic Position and Coverage Responsibilities 20) End of First Half Procedure D) When the warning horn sounds 2) Umpire a) goes to the table b) checks with the scorer and timer for readiness c) relays the ball to the referee d) assumes the Lead position in the frontcourt

Nothing in the IAABO Mechanics Manual states that the Umpire and/or scorer/timer must confirm starting players for each team to start the second half.

Is there a NFHS mechanic that states that the Umpire and/or scorer/timer must confirm starting players for each team to start the second half?

I thoroughly screened the NFHS Manual; there is nothing regarding any interaction between the Umpire and the Scorer near the end of the halftime intermission. This one's all IAABO.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's actually the scorer's responsibility.



ilyazhito must have much more competent scorers in his Maryland/Virginia/Washington area than we have here in my little corner of Connecticut.





And I wouldn't even bet a dime that "not reporting" never occurred in thousands of these situations over forty-plus years.

It would certainly be losing bet.

By rule, it is the scorer's responsibility. In practice, the timer is the one who actually controls the electronic scoreboard, sounds the audio signal to call the officials' attention, and displays players in the game and fouls on the scoreboard. I would check the board, make sure the timer didn't make any changes to the scoreboard, and confirm with the scorer that what the timer has is correct. .

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

By rule, it is the scorer's responsibility. In practice, the timer is the one who actually controls the electronic scoreboard, sounds the audio signal to call the officials' attention, and displays players in the game and fouls on the scoreboard. I would check the board, make sure the timer didn't make any changes to the scoreboard, and confirm with the scorer that what the timer has is correct. .

If you aren't already doing that every time-out and intermission, you aren't going to start doing it just b/c players' numbers are up on the scoreboard.

You said in an earlier response that officials are the "you" in the following statement: Well-equipped gyms with modern scoreboards usually have the players who were in during last quarter so you can compare whether they properly subbed or not."