Delay Throwin Or Free Throw ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not really know what you are asking.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But I have no idea what the freak he is asking. No idea whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Not sure what's being asked.

This:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What rulebook and/or casebook citations tell us how to handle other (not 10.4.5) delay situations during a throwin or a free throw not after a timeout or intermission where we simply place the ball on the floor (disposal), or give it to the team who is not delaying?

Note that in some situations (in all cases not after timeout or intermission) we have a casebook play but no associated rulebook citation (inbounding), while in other situations (first lane space) we have neither a casebook play nor an associated rulebook citation.

[Raymond]

I don't know what this means: "or give it to the team who is not delaying?"

[ilyazhito]

On a free throw, assuming there is no timeout, the ball will be placed at the free thrower's disposal. A is not required to have people in the lane spaces, only B. If B is not in the lane spaces, the free throws will be administered, with a violation against B for not occupying the required spaces if the free throw is missed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On a free throw, assuming there is no timeout, the ball will be placed at the free thrower's disposal. A is not required to have people in the lane spaces, only B. If B is not in the lane spaces, the free throws will be administered, with a violation against B for not occupying the required spaces if the free throw is missed.

Agree, but need a "no timeout" citation, either rulebook or casebook.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On a free throw, assuming there is no timeout, the ball will be placed at the free thrower's disposal. A is not required to have people in the lane spaces, only B. If B is not in the lane spaces, the free throws will be administered, with a violation against B for not occupying the required spaces if the free throw is missed.

Incorrect.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Incorrect.

Rule 9-1-2 says that "Teams shall properly occupy marked lane spaces according to number and space requirements". Therefore, B not having players in the first marked lane spaces is a violation. I also cited the penalty under Rule 9 section 1.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't know what this means: "or give it to the team who is not delaying?"

Good catch Raymond. Thank you.

Giving the ball it to the team who is not delaying usually occurs only after a timeout or intermission. Inbounding team is ready. Team not inbounding is still in their huddle even after the second horn and a strong whistle by the official. Give the ball to the inbounding team for an uncontested layup. For most officials, more of a rulebook written exam question rather than a real game situation. Most officials would use their game management skills (patience, location, voice, whistle) to get the non-inbounding team out onto the court.

That's (after a timeout or intermission) already covered in the resumption-of-play procedure rule.

More likely is putting the ball the floor when the inbounding team doesn't make an inbounder available. That can occur both after after a timeout or intermission, or not after a timeout or intermission. Resumption-of-play procedure covers after a timeout or intermission, casebook play (but no rule) covers not after a timeout or intermission.

[BillyMac]

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

My general question is: Why do my interpreters/trainers often stress that the resumption-of-play procedure is used following a timeout or intermission, when in reality it is used in many other situations not necessarily following a timeout or intermission, with two main exceptions, delay by the free thrower, and starting the second half, both of which are immediate technical fouls that do not involve placing the ball on the floor or giving it to the team who is not delaying.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

My general question is: Why do interpreters/trainers often stress that the resumption-of-play procedure is used following a timeout or intermission, when in reality it is used in many other situations not necessarily following a timeout or intermission, with two main exceptions, delay by the free thrower, and starting the second half, both of which are immediate technical fouls that do not involve placing the ball on the floor or giving it to the team who is not delaying.

What trainers are you talking about? Are you assuming facts not in evidence?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

What trainers are you talking about?

IAABO, every time this casebook play is used as an exam question and discussed.

10.4.5 SITUATION: The ruling official has reported the foul and has given directions to players along the lane. The official is ready to put the ball at free thrower A1’s disposal, but A1 is at the sideline talking to the coach ...

"We don't use the resumption-of-play procedure in this situation because it's NOT after a timeout or intermission".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

IAABO, every time this casebook play is used as an exam question and discussed.

10.4.5 SITUATION: The ruling official has reported the foul and has given directions to players along the lane. The official is ready to put the ball at free thrower A1’s disposal, but A1 is at the sideline talking to the coach ...

"We don't use the resumption-of-play procedure in this situation because it's NOT after a timeout or intermission".

We don't do our training through IAABO. A lot of associations don't. You should probably address that concern directly to IAABO.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

We don't do our training through IAABO. A lot of associations don't.

I know that and Raymond probably also knows that I know that, but I did go back and change "interpreters/trainers" to "my interpreters/trainers".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

IAABO, every time this casebook play is used as an exam question and discussed.

10.4.5 SITUATION: The ruling official has reported the foul and has given directions to players along the lane. The official is ready to put the ball at free thrower A1’s disposal, but A1 is at the sideline talking to the coach ...

"We don't use the resumption-of-play procedure in this situation because it's NOT after a timeout or intermission".

"This situation" refers to the FT.

Resumption of play:
1) Throw-in; or
2) After TO; or
3) After intermission (unless either team is not on court to start second half)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Resumption of play:
1) Throw-in; or
2) After TO; or
3) After intermission (unless either team is not on court to start second half)

Great post bob jenkins.

I just spotted the word "or" in 4-38, however the 7-5-1 has a comma instead of an "or", which is what confused me.

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

7-5-1: When a team does not make a thrower available, after a timeout (as in 7-4-4) or the intermission between any quarter (as in 6-2-3), the resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay. The administering official will sound the whistle to indicate play will resume ...

The "or" is important, it covers all throwins, both after a timeout or intermission and not after a timeout or intermission.

Not so for free throws. After a timeout or intermission (resumption-of-play) is not the same as not after a timeout or intermission (technical foul).

(Aside from starting second half.)

I learned a lot today. Thanks.