Michigan State v Purdue

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

I have always stated that for experienced veterans, it's not the rules that are a problem, it's the rule changes that are a problem...

It doesn't take much effort to keep up with rule changes. Far less reading than reading the entire rule book.



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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It doesn't take much effort to keep up with rule changes. Far less reading than reading the entire rule book.

Easy to learn, hard to remember in the heat (for me) of the game.

It's more like a "mental block" for me, and I have to concentrate real hard to successfully get through it; changes that should, as for most officials, just "slip off my tongue".

Like a jumper catching a jump ball, or a kick during an alternating possession throwin. I just can't get these changes into a permanent, easily accessible part of my brain, it's always a real struggle (what's the current rule) to concentrate and come up with the correct, current ruling. These are the two "biggies" for me, maybe the only ones. Probably because one could go several seasons in a row without seeing and calling them.

I've had other veterans tell me this, but they don't seem to have this problem to the extreme that I have this problem.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... a jumper catching a jump ball ...

I actually have had some success remembering this change by trying to remember what it's not.

It's not, "Lose the ball, lose the arrow", as it was in ancient times.

The human mind, at least my human mind, works in mysterious ways.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I actually have had some success remembering this change by trying to remember what it's not.

It's not, "Lose the ball, lose the arrow", as it was in ancient times.

The human mind, at least my human mind, works in mysterious ways.

Maybe if you didn't try to keep an encyclopedia on the history of every rule in your brain, you'd have room to remember to new stuff that's pertinent now.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Maybe if you didn't try to keep an encyclopedia on the history of every rule in your brain, you'd have room to remember to new stuff that's pertinent now.

I don't try, and make no effort to do so. As far as I know, there is no delete function in my brain. Wish that there was, for basketball reasons, and reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with basketball.

My 1975 home phone number just popped into my brain after being forgotten for years (three number prefix of a different number reminded me of it). Don't need it. Don't want it, but it's there. Also have my 1964 home phone number, had it for eleven years, in two different houses, it never left my brain. Don't need it. Don't want it, but it's there.

Yet I only know the phone numbers of one of my three adult children. Have to check the phone number list (I don't use my cell phone for calls made from home) every time I call the other two. Go figure.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't try, and make no effort to do so. As far as I know, there is no delete function in my brain. Wish that there was, for basketball reasons, and reasons, that have absolutely nothing to do with basketball.

My 1975 home phone number just popped into my brain after being forgotten for years (three number prefix of a different number reminded me of it). Don't need it. Don't want it, but it's there. Also have my 1964 home phone number, had it for eleven years, in two different houses, it never left my brain.

Yet I only know the phone numbers of one of my three adult children. Have to check the phone number list (I don't use my cell phone for calls made from home) every time I call the other two. Go figure.

Good reason to stay out rules conversations when young officials need to focus on the here and now and not get distracted by side discussions on what used to be.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Good reason to stay out rules conversations when young officials need to focus on the here and now and not get distracted by side discussions on what used to be.

... As I do when "live" training, observing, critiquing, and/or evaluating inexperienced (both young and old) officials.

I was thinking about this "mysterious" memory thing. In fifth grade, Mr. Macnick had us memorize the capitals of all fifty states (including the "new" states Alaska and Hawaii). Fifty-eight years later and I can remember most, but not all of them. Some capitals are easy to memorize, and I easily remember them, because they're somehow "memorable", large important cities (Atlanta), interesting sounding names (Tallahassee), or places that I've actually visited (Richmond). Other are less memorable for the "opposite" reasons. Why is it that I can remember some of these "less memorable" capitals (Pierre), but not others (Madison)?

Of course, if I were to "try" and go out of my way to study and memorize these state capitals again, I'm sure that I can remember all fifty of them, but without Mr. Macnick's state capital test hanging over my head, why bother, I have no plans to go on Jeopardy any time soon.

[Zoochy]

So, when this rule is wrongly applied, then how does it affect the 3 officials in achieving post season assignments? Or does anybody really care about the misapplication?
Maybe if it happened in the beginning of the season it would have been swept under the table. But it happened so late in the season and on national TV.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

End of the game ... when this rule is wrongly applied, then how does it affect the 3 officials in achieving post season assignments? Or does anybody really care about the misapplication ... on national TV.

My uneducated guess.

"End of the game" is always more important than earlier in the game. Teams can often overcome a mistake by an official early in the game, but may not have enough time to do so late in the game.

"National TV"? I'll let the college guys opine on that.

Most important may be "impact". Did the wrong throwin spot put one team at a major disadvantage that they couldn't overcome because it was very late in the game?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

So, when this rule is wrongly applied, then how does it affect the 3 officials in achieving post season assignments? Or does anybody really care about the misapplication?
Maybe if it happened in the beginning of the season it would have been swept under the table. But it happened so late in the season and on national TV.

Above my pay grade.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

So, when this rule is wrongly applied, then how does it affect the 3 officials in achieving post season assignments? Or does anybody really care about the misapplication?
Maybe if it happened in the beginning of the season it would have been swept under the table. But it happened so late in the season and on national TV.

I don't think this is one of those mistakes that would weigh heavily on post-season. There are bigger missed calls in every game than the wrong throw-in spot on an odd-ball play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... moving into the lane to rebound a free throw ... world record for basketball back-and-forth rule changes ... don't know why, it was very easy to adjust to each time it changed.

Maybe because we have dozens of free throws every game?

How frequently do we have a kick during an alternating possession throwin?

I've only had one since the alternating possession arrow was "invented", also coming after the most recent rule change. I called it wrong (based on the old rule) but my rookie partner, fresh from training classes, set me straight.

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

How frequently do we have a jumper illegally catch the jump ball?

6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team A’s basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)

Just posting these two changed, but rare, rules helps me to remember them. Thanks for playing along. Hope I helped some other grizzled old-timers.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe because we have dozens of free throws every game?

How frequently do we have a kick during an alternating possession throwin?

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

I remember concepts, not each individual rule. Throw-ins do not end if a foul or defensive violation occurs during the throw-in, so arrow does not change.

Unless POI is being enforced, throw-ins after fouls and violations are not AP throw-ins.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I remember concepts, not each individual rule. Throw-ins do not end if a foul or defensive violation occurs during the throw-in, so arrow does not change. Unless POI is being enforced, throw-ins after fouls and violations are not AP throw-ins.

But the interpretations of said concepts weren't always what they are today.

In past times, a kick during a AP throwin led to the arrow being switched (it was a touch, an illegal touch, but nevertheless a touch that, by definition, ended the throwin), and a jumper illegally catching a jump ball led to his team losing the ball and losing the arrow (it was a possession, an illegal possession, but nevertheless a possession (holding the ball), arrow to other team; same as if nonjumper legally caught the ball, held it, and immediately traveled).

While the concepts (throwin ends, holding possession) may have stayed the same, these two interpretations (above) have changed, and are now incorrect.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team A’s basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)

[Raymond]

"6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team A’s basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)"

This is not an AP throw-in, it's a throw-in for a violation. The arrow is SET to Team A in response to Team B having initial possession of the ball. So, the arrow is not SWITCHED b/c it was never set in the first place.

It's only confusing if one concentrates on what it used to be instead of memorizing what it is.

A lot of things change over the years. At some point there is no excuse for not knowing the current rules. We don't get to consult with the forum in the middle of a game.