Shot Clocks

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... the rule states that it is a violation to be in continuous possession of a ball in a team's on backcourt for more than 10 seconds ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As does NCAA

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't quite see the difference here.

Originally Posted by Zoochy

BillyMac, Once again you have hijacked a thread and made it your personal agenda.

Sorry Zoochy. ilyazhito's post struck a nerve, and I didn't expect to have to follow up with bob jenkins.

I did try to search for earlier threads on (game) clocks rounding up, or rounding down, but failed in my attempt.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sorry Zoochy.

While I'm still apologetic, it was probably a good thing that I replied to ilyazhito's possibly confusing post. He cited a NFHS rule (it is a violation to be in continuous possession of a ball in a team's on backcourt for more than 10 seconds) in a thread about NCAA (NCAA ten second rule is not continuous possession) shot clocks. While I may have turned the thread a little, I may have saved it from going completely sideways.

Hope to see (figuratively) you tomorrow Zoochy.

[ilyazhito]

The NCAA rule states that a team "shall not be in continuous control of a ball in the backcourt for 10 seconds". This means that the 10-second count starts on the touch inbounds. This is different than NFHS rules, where it starts on player control inbounds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The NCAA rule states that a team "shall not be in continuous control of a ball in the backcourt for 10 seconds". This means that the 10-second count starts on the touch inbounds. This is different than NFHS rules, where it starts on player control inbounds.

So does NCAA team control start on the touch?

Or does NCAA team control start at disposal to inbounder (who is neither in the frontcourt nor in the backcourt) and then carry over to a player inbounds (seems odd, kind of what bob jenkins was talking about earlier) ?

In other words, what is NCAA definition of team control and/or player control?

[bob jenkins]

https://www.ncaapublications.com/sea...ketball%20Rule

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The NCAA rule states that a team "shall not be in continuous control of a ball in the backcourt for 10 seconds". This means that the 10-second count starts on the touch inbounds. This is different than NFHS rules, where it starts on player control inbounds.

Yet, the wording for the NFHS rule is essentially identical.

NFHS: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

The wording you cite is not the reason that the NFHS and NCAA different in their rulings.

[ilyazhito]

Team control starts with the ball being at the team's disposal for a throw-in, so they are considered in control for all purposes, not just to prevent the other team from shooting bonus free throws on a player/team control foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Team control starts with the ball being at the team's disposal for a throw-in, so they are considered in control for all purposes, not just to prevent the other team from shooting bonus free throws on a player/team control foul.

So if the throw-in is tipped by the offense in the FC and goes to the BC and the offense recovers, it's a violation?

We know that's not true.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The NCAA rule states that a team "shall not be in continuous control of a ball in the backcourt for 10 seconds". This means that the 10-second count starts on the touch inbounds.

ilyazhito: So the NCAA player control (that leads to team control) rule must include holding, dribbling, or touching?

Or is there some type of exception (player/team control, as defined by rule, not necessary) for ten seconds?

I know that the NCAA 10-second count starts on the touch inbounds, just questioning the rule basis, especially the phrase "continuous control", in other words, how does the NCAA achieve this "work around?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know that the NCAA 10-second count starts on the touch inbounds,

Just to clarify -- it starts on the touch after a throw-in. It starts on possession after a jump ball, a rebound, a turnover. (there might be other categories -- I'm doing this without my book)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Just to clarify -- it starts on the touch after a throw-in. It starts on possession after a jump ball, a rebound, a turnover.

Thanks.

... Because there is player/team control after disposal on a throwin and not so for a jump ball, a rebound, a turnover, etc.?

Does the NCAA characterize this throwin player/team control to be used only for the purpose of team control fouls (no free throws) during the throwin, and not for anything else (backcourt) as the NFHS does?

Or rather, does the NCAA allow this throwin player/team control to be used for ten second purposes (or any purpose except backcourt) when the inbounds pass goes to a player in the backcourt, making a touch essentially the same as a possession (holding, dribbling) in this situation?

[ilyazhito]

On a jump ball and a rebound, there is no team control. This is because no team control is possible while the ball is dead (before a jump ball), or during a try (which has to.precede a rebound). Before a turnover, there is no team control if the ball is loose. This is why loose ball fouls are a separate category under NCAAM rules.

Once the ball becomes live on a throw-in, the team throwing in the ball has control until the ball becomes dead again, assuming possession is not lost in the interim (via a turnover, try, foul, violation, or jump ball situation [not all situations that trigger the possession arrow are caused by a held ball]). The team control that happens when the ball is at the disposal of a team is the same as team control when the ball is live in bounds. The touch inbounds signifies that the ball is inbounds, action proceeds, and therefore game and shot clocks will start.