Correctable Error: 3pt FGA: Utah State vs Portland State Men's Game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am sure that most of us have read about this game and seen a video of the Play: https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ortland-state/

We all know or should know that the Rule is the same for NFHS, NCAA Men's, and NCAA Women's and there are Casebook Plays and Approved Rulings across the three Rules Codes that state that this is a 3pt FG.

The Ball went through the Basket with 5:16 left in the 1st Half and the Officials scored it as a 2pt FG. At Half Time the Officials went to the Rule Book and before the 2nd Half resumed changed the FG from 2pts to 3pts.

My question is: Was this a Correctable Error? If it was a CE, then was it not too late to change it from a 2pt FG to a 3pt FG?

My two cents: It was a CE and it was too late to Correct it.

What say you? Let the fun begin.

MTD, Sr.

[BryanV21]

My understanding is that if the mistake was by the official(s) then it's not correctable as the time frame has passed, but if the error is by the table then it can be corrected.

In this case, since it was reported as a 2 point FG it had to be corrected in the time frame but wasn't. Should have been left as a 2.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[bob jenkins]

NCAAW is different from NFHS on this, at least in gmaes with replay.

The official needs to SIGNAL the table that this will be reviewed and that SIGNAL needs to come within the CE time frame. The replay review is then held at the next media TO or immediately at the end of the quarter (whichever comes first).

If the play happens after the media timeout in the 4th quarter, then the review must happen within the CE timeframe

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAAW is different from NFHS on this, at least in gmaes with replay.

The official needs to SIGNAL the table that this will be reviewed and that SIGNAL needs to come within the CE time frame. The replay review is then held at the next media TO or immediately at the end of the quarter (whichever comes first).

If the play happens after the media timeout in the 4th quarter, then the review must happen within the CE timeframe

Bob:

Question per NCAA Women's Rules: If my memory serves me correctly isn't the Replay Review for determining whether or not the FGA was from behind the 3pt Line (i.e. the Shooter was on or behind the 3pt Line)? This was straight up a Ball that was released behind the 3pt Line that went untouched through the Basket. The Officials then went to the Rules Book and the Approved Rulings and determined that it should have been scored as a 3pt FG.

Mark

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

My understanding is that if the mistake was by the official(s) then it's not correctable as the time frame has passed but if the error is by the table then it can be corrected.

If NFHS and NCAA correctable error rules are the same, as the grizzled old geezer states, I agree with BryanV21.

If the officials had signaled three points at the time of the play, and if the table has incorrectly marked two points, this is a bookkeeping error that can be corrected up until the officials jurisdiction ends.

However, if the officials had not signaled three points at the time of the play, this is a correctable error situation that falls under the usual constraints and time frame restrictions of the correctable error rule.

2-1-1-E: Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in: Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

While I can't speak in regard to NCAA rules, in ancient NFHS times, when the three point arc were first painted on the court, if it was deemed a pass it would only count as two points.

But, quoth the raven, nevermore.

Am I right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.? Nice post. Thanks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob:

Question per NCAA Women's Rules: If my memory serves me correctly isn't the Replay Review for determining whether or not the FGA was from behind the 3pt Line (i.e. the Shooter was on or behind the 3pt Line)? This was straight up a Ball that was released behind the 3pt Line that went untouched through the Basket. The Officials then went to the Rules Book and the Approved Rulings and determined that it should have been scored as a 3pt FG.

Mark

MTD, Sr.

I am now confused as to what happened and who "scored it a 2."

Are you saying the official knew the shooter was behind the line and still didn't signal a 3 (or showed two fingers to the table, or similar)?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I am now confused as to what happened and who "scored it a 2."

Are you saying the official knew the shooter was behind the line and still didn't signal a 3 (or showed two fingers to the table, or similar)?

Yes. It was an alley opp pass from "way downtown" that touched nothing but net.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Yes. It was an alley opp pass from "way downtown" that touched nothing but net.

MTD, Sr.

Oh -- so they (incorrectly) ruled that because it was not a try, it couldn't be worth 3 points? And at halftime the looked up the rule, realized they kicked it and changed the scoring?

Yes -- that's a CE and must be corrected in the CE timeframe.

[JRutledge]

Or maybe no one thought this was a question and did not signal a 3 point basket. I could see that happening, but the officials should signal a three signal once the ball goes into the basket.

Sounds like this is the semantics of the rule. Did the officials make a mistake or did the table not properly award a 3 point shot? I'm not sure that it would have been wrong for the book person to award a 3 point shot.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sounds like this is the semantics of the rule. Did the officials make a mistake or did the table not properly award a 3 point shot?

There are a few separate issues here.

First, two points or three points for a "pass" from behind the three point arc that goes in? I can't speak for the NCAA, but it's three points in "modern" NFHS rules. If that rule is inadvertently set aside (misapplied) and the officials do not signal the three point "touchdown" signal, then we move onto the second issue.

Failing to signal the three point "touchdown" signal due to an inadvertently set aside (misapplied) rule is a correctable error situation that falls under the usual constraints and time frame restrictions of the correctable error rule.

On the other hand, if the officials did signal the three point "touchdown" signal, and the scorekeeper unilaterally decided, incorrectly due to his unfamiliarity with the rule, to mark two points instead of three points, that's a bookkeeping error that can be corrected up until the officials jurisdiction ends (NFHS).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I'm not sure that it would have been wrong for the book person to award a 3 point shot.

I find this situation fascinating. Thanks JRutledge.

Officials inadvertently set aside (misapplied) the rule and don't signal three, but the scorekeeper marks it as three, knowing the proper rule.

Next, within the correctable error time frame, or outside of the correctable error time frame, the opposing coach questions the score, "You didn't signal three but the scorekeeper put up three".

In either situation, on time, or too late, what score goes up on the scoreboard?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There are a few separate issues here.

First, two points or three points for a "pass" from behind the three point arc that goes in? I can't speak for the NCAA, but it's three points in "modern" NFHS rules. If that rule is inadvertently set aside (misapplied) and the officials do not signal the three point "touchdown" signal, then we move onto the second issue.

A.R. 113.A ball passed from behind the three-point line:
1. Enters the basket from above and passes through;
2. Is deflected and enters the basket from above and passes through; or
3. Strikes the side of the ring or the flange.

RULING
1: A three-point goal shall be counted.
2: When there is no possibility of the ball entering the basket from above and the deflection causes the goal to be successful, it shall be a two-point goal. However, when a ball is passed in the direction of the basket with the possibility of entering the basket from above and the deflection does not influence its success, a three-point goal shall be counted.
3: The ball shall remain live. In 1, 2 and 3, when a passed ball hits the
ring or flange and does not enter the basket, there is no reset of the shot clock. (Rule 5-1.1, 5-1.2.a, 5-1.3 and .4, 4-25 and 2-11.6.b.4 and 2-11.6.d.1)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Failing to signal the three point "touchdown" signal due to an inadvertently set aside (misapplied) rule is a correctable error situation that falls under the usual constraints and time frame restrictions of the correctable error rule.

On the other hand, if the officials did signal the three point "touchdown" signal, and the scorekeeper unilaterally decided, incorrectly due to his unfamiliarity with the rule, to mark two points instead of three points, that's a bookkeeping error that can be corrected up until the officials jurisdiction ends (NFHS).

Are you sure about these statements?

Peace

[Mike Goodwin]

I can't see all of what the college crew did because they went out of frame (specifically: signal vs. no signal by each of the crew members), but this case book play closely resembles the video. [Fortunately for high-school officials: we no longer have to judge pass vs. try].

2.10.1 SITUATION K

A1 jumps and releases a try for goal apparently from behind the three-point line. The try is successful. The covering official does not indicate a three-point try and does not signal three points after the goal. The Team A coach rushes to the table and requests a 60-second time-out to discuss a correctable error. It is determined neither official clearly observed A1's location before the player jumped to try.

No change can be made and two points are properly scored. The 60-second time-out remains charged to Team A. (5-8-4)

[Edit]: this case play indicates that when an official does not signal a 3-pt try, the CE window opens.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Are you sure about these statements?

100% sure, but only for NFHS.

I know more about rocket surgery and brain science than I know about NCAA rules

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

100% sure, but only for NFHS.

I know more about rocket surgery and brain science than I know about NCAA rules

I am not sure I agree. Because if this is obviously a 3 and you never say it is a 2, then what is correctable?

Peace