Interesting Play

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No. You are on your knees. The rules do not say anything about being on your knees you have a pivot foot. That is why the debate is what you can do if you are on your knees. Because a player could get possession the first time while on their knees. There is no pivot foot. By rule they just cannot get up. Now what that means if you are on both knees is the debate here.

Peace

I thought the debate here was whether or not you can go to your knees from laying prone on your stomach?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

I thought the debate here was whether or not you can go to your knees from laying prone on your stomach?

The debate took a turn.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

I thought the debate here was whether or not you can go to your knees from laying prone on your stomach?

The debate is if you can come to your knees. You do not have a pivot foot while on the floor. You just do not. That should not be a debate.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You do not have a pivot foot while on the floor.

... nor pivot knees, pivot cheeks, pivot elbows, pivot stomach, pivot back, pivot head, etc.

Whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:39)

[Remington]

Here is what we received from NFHS:


My interpretation of this video based on the rule/case play is that this a legal play.

The player gains control on the floor and begins her dribble from the floor which the Case Play 4.44.5B illustrates as a legal play. Rule 4-44-5b is addressing a travel in which a player stands without dribbling either holding her setting the ball down to stand up. Both of these situations would be a travel.

I also forwarded the video to Fran Martin for her thoughts and copied her on this response.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Happy holidays!
Lindsey

Lindsey M. Atkinson, CIC, RAA

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Remington

Here is what we received from NFHS:


My interpretation of this video based on the rule/case play is that this a legal play.

The player gains control on the floor and begins her dribble from the floor which the Case Play 4.44.5B illustrates as a legal play. Rule 4-44-5b is addressing a travel in which a player stands without dribbling either holding her setting the ball down to stand up. Both of these situations would be a travel.

I also forwarded the video to Fran Martin for her thoughts and copied her on this response.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Happy holidays!
Lindsey

Lindsey M. Atkinson, CIC, RAA

Which most of us said in the first place. People love to add crap to every play.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Remington

... legal ... the player gains control on the floor and begins her dribble from the floor ... setting the ball down to stand up ... would be a travel.

Hasn't gotten any better since it was posted the first time.

Yes the player did gain control on the floor. Legal.

Yes the player begins her dribble from the floor (from her knees). Legal.

What happened in between?

Did she attempt to stand up by moving from flat on her stomach to her knees with more than half of her body upright?

Ah, there's the rub.

The cherry on top of the sundae is that it is not illegal for such a player to set the ball down and stand up.

It is illegal for such a player to set the ball down, stand up, and touch the ball, an interpretation apparently not well understood by Ms. Atkinson.

What else isn't well understood by Ms. Atkinson?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Hasn't gotten any better since it was posted the first time.

Yes the player did gain control on the floor. Legal.

Yes the player begins her dribble from the floor (from her knees). Legal.

What happened in between?

Did she attempt to stand up by moving from flat on her stomach to her knees with more than half of her body upright?

Ah, there's the rub.

The cherry on top of the sundae is that it is not illegal for such a player to set the ball down and stand up.

It is illegal for such a player to set the ball down, stand up, and touch the ball, an interpretation apparently not well understood by Ms. Atkinson.

What else isn't well understood by Ms. Atkinson?

And they saw the video and gave you their interpretation. You can not accept it and that is fine, but the people that would know seemed to evaluate the situation directly. So if you want to keep racking your brain over this, I guess. I am not calling a traveling for this ever unless they change the rule or get specific with the interpretation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And they saw the video and gave you their interpretation ...

I can accept her interpretation, I just can't accept her poorly written rationale, leaving some questions unanswered, or answered incompletely.

Would have also liked to have seen the question. There's a possibility that she's not focusing on the debate that we're having. I don't believe that anyone here is questioning the legality a player to legally begin a dribble from her knees. It's not part of our debate. Yet, Ms. Atkinson seems to be concentrating on that aspect of the play.

A good question would have been: As the player moves from flat on the floor to her knees, is she attempting to get up? What is considered an attempt to get up?

Also, she may have been focusing on the incorrect call of the official, apparently (if not a really late whistle) not allowing the player to legally begin a dribble from her knees.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

The cherry on top of the sundae is that it is not illegal for such a player to set the ball down and stand up.

It is illegal for such a player to set the ball down, stand up, and touch the ball, an interpretation apparently not well understood by Ms. Atkinson.

What else isn't well understood by Ms. Atkinson?

As I said before, I'm confident she is quite aware touching the ball again is part of the violation. Because, like I said before, otherwise the violation would be for simply putting the ball down.

She is not writing a formal thesis, she is counting on common sense that touching ball again assumed.