Covid

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

They're utterly useless.

It's a respiratory droplet infection.

While the efficiency of various types of masks can be debated, there can be no debate that wearing a mask is better than not wearing a mask, for both the mask wearer (protecting one's self, and others) and for those that don't wear a mask in the presence of others who are masked who may have COVID, either symptomatic, or asymptomatic.

Mask wearing is a simple, common sense, and low-cost strategy to mitigate COVID transmission, with few serious side effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084286/

Would mask wearing have prevented 800,000 deaths? No it wouldn't, but even a decrease of 1,000 deaths would have made mask wearing worth it.

Doctors wear masks during surgery for a reason and it's not to look cool.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's a respiratory droplet infection.

While the efficiency of various types of masks can be debated, there can be no debate that wearing a mask is better than not wearing a mask, for both the mask wearer (protecting one's self, and others) and for those that don't wear a mask in the presence of others who may have COVID, either symptomatic or asymptomatic and are masked.

Mask wearing is a simple, common sense, and low-cost strategy to mitigate COVID transmission, with few serious side effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084286/

Doctors wear masks during surgery for a reason and it's not to look cool.

Surgeons don't wear gaiters!

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's a respiratory droplet infection.

While the efficiency of various types of masks can be debated, there can be no debate that wearing a mask is better than not wearing a mask, for both the mask wearer (protecting one's self, and others) and for those that don't wear a mask in the presence of others who may have COVID, either symptomatic, or asymptomatic, and are masked.

Mask wearing is a simple, common sense, and low-cost strategy to mitigate COVID transmission, with few serious side effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084286/

Would mask wearing have prevented 800,000 deaths? No it wouldn't, but even a decrease of 1,000 deaths would have made mask wearing worth it.

Doctors wear masks during surgery for a reason and it's not to look cool.

Surgeons wear surgical masks to keep from spitting their gum or sneezing into someones open body cavity.

Absolutely no study has shown that surgical masks do anyrhing for respiratory viruses. Real-time data has shown that masks in highly compliant countries and states where massks were mandated did little to reduce cases. Even fitted n95 have limited effectiveness and need to be changed often

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Surgeons wear surgical masks to keep from spitting their gum or sneezing into someones open body cavity. Absolutely no study has shown that surgical masks do anything for respiratory viruses.

Read the National Institute of Health article again. Certainly better than a study one finds on Facebook, Twitter, Instagraph, or My Space.

This study cites dozens of studies that say the same thing, masks work.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084286/

The effectiveness of masks in population-wide scenarios has been proven to be significant … community-based research has demonstrated the efficacy of cloth masks in slowing down the spread of COVID-19 ... For the general public, the use of cloth masks in public settings, such as grocery stores and places of worship, especially in regions with known or suspected widespread transmission, or in situations where physical distancing is not possible, has been encouraged by the WHO and many policy makers ... consistent and proper usage of facial coverings can help minimize symptomatic transmission of SARS-CoV-2 during close contact ... COVID-19 transmission rates are generally lower in countries and regions where citizens are accustomed or required to adopt universal masking, such as many parts of Asia. Simulations and mathematical models have also predicted that the adoption of universal masking would substantially curtail the spread of COVID-19 ... observational studies have presented real-world evidence that suggests mask-wearing helps mitigate community transmission of COVID-19 ... face mask mandates reduced the number of newly reported SARS-CoV-2 infections between 15 and 75% within the first 20 days of their introduction ... study focused on 15 states and Washington D.C., in which all able individuals were mandated to wear a face mask in public settings. Similarly, it was found that face mask mandates were associated with a lower COVID-19 daily growth rate, and that this effect increased over time after the mandates were put in place ... study found that within the first few weeks after the mask mandate came into effect, the average weekly number of newly diagnosed SARS-CoV-2 infections decreased by 25–31% ... mask mandates accounting for an estimated 36–46% reduction in weekly case numbers ... all available epidemiologic evidence suggests that community-wide mask-wearing results in reduced rates of COVID-19 infections.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Would mask wearing have prevented 800,000 deaths? No it wouldn't, but even a decrease of 1,000 deaths would have made mask wearing worth it.

I would disagree....not for ~0.1% reduction. The burden being imposed upon millions (even billions) is just too great for that small impact.

That said, I believe masks are much more effective than that in stopping the ejection of potentially virus carrying droplets into the air. It really isn't that hard to understand. I still hate wearing it, but you really can't argue against the fact that they stop people from spraying stuff into the air. It is basically like covering your nose and mouth when you sneeze/cough. Anyone arguing that masks do nothing must also be arguing that no one ever needs to cover their mouth/nose when they sneeze and should be ok with someone sneezing on them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Would mask wearing have prevented 800,000 deaths? No it wouldn't, but even a decrease of 1,000 deaths would have made mask wearing worth it.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I would disagree....not for ~0.1% reduction. The burden being imposed upon millions (even billions) is just too great for that small impact.

Yeah, my numbers were faulty (I almost changed it to 10,000 in my original post).

But with 800,000 deaths and millions on ventilators, hospitalized, or just very sick, what would be the "tipping point"? 10,000 dead? 50,000 dead? 100,000 dead? For a simple, common sense, and low-cost strategy to mitigate COVID transmission, with few serious side effects?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yeah, my numbers were faulty (I almost changed it to 10,000 in my original post).

But with 800,000 deaths and millions on ventilators, hospitalized, or just very sick, what would be the "tipping point"? 10,000 dead? 50,000 dead? 100,000 dead? For a simple, common sense, and low-cost strategy to mitigate COVID transmission, with few serious side effects?

I don't know the number. I'm sure it would be different for everyone.

We could have saved the equivalent of all of the deaths over the same time period by eliminating smoking and there is no redeeming element to smoking and eliminating it doesn't cause harm to anyone.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

We could have saved the equivalent of all of the deaths over the same time period by eliminating smoking and there is no redeeming element to smoking and eliminating it doesn't cause harm to anyone.

States, and the federal government, have tried written warnings, advertising restrictions, excessive excise taxes, location restrictions (restaurants, car rentals, hotels, etc.), age restrictions, suing tobacco companies, etc., but it's a "free country".

Remember when all cars had ash trays and cigarette lighters?

I've been watching black and white Perry Mason (if one likes court shows, it's as good as Law and Order) reruns on cable lately, and everybody is smoking all of the time, everybody just lights up. Watch network television today and it would appear that nobody is a smoker.

I've always maintained that some believe that everyone is very intelligent and can make all of their own good choices in all matters (health, finances, consumerism, etc.), while others believe that everyone is really stupid and the government needs to make most choices for them, but the reality is actually somewhere in between those two extremes. But where? Aye, there's the rub.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... eliminating it doesn't cause harm to anyone.

My Dad would beg to differ with you. Eliminating smoking negatively affected my Dad's quality of life. Claimed he picked up the habit getting free cigarettes from the Army during WWII. For the sake of his grandchildren's health, after forty-five years of smoking, he gave it up cold turkey. But to his dying day (not lung cancer) he said he always missed the cigarette he had with his cup of coffee every night after dinner. After a hard day at the office, it was the favorite part of his day. Caffeine and nicotine. That was good living. It didn't get any better than that for him. The simple pleasures of life.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My Dad would beg to differ with you. Eliminating smoking negatively affected my Dad's quality of life. For the sake of his grandchildren's health, after forty-five years of smoking, he gave it up cold turkey. But to his dying day (not lung cancer) he said he always missed the cigarette he had with his cup of coffee every night after dinner. After a hard day at the office, it was the favorite part of his day. Caffeine and nicotine. That was good living. It didn't get any better than that for him. The simple pleasures of life.

And it makes no difference if he had smoked weed, shot heroin, taken quaaludes, or downed a couple of shots of whiskey after dinner for his enjoyment and quality of life… He would have felt the same way about it.

Your story just demonstrates that people will do as they desire in the self-harm category with the timeframe of their upbringing and those societal norms having a large influence upon which personal vices are chosen.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My Dad would beg to differ with you. Eliminating smoking negatively affected my Dad's quality of life. For the sake of his grandchildren's health, after forty-five years of smoking, he gave it up cold turkey. But to his dying day (not lung cancer) he said he always missed the cigarette he had with his cup of coffee every night after dinner. After a hard day at the office, it was the favorite part of his day. Caffeine and nicotine. That was good living. It didn't get any better than that for him. The simple pleasures of life.

You just described drug addiction.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You just described drug addiction.

Yes I did, and purposely without mentioning the word addiction.

I'm not a smoker, but some have told me that the combination of nicotine and alcohol is similar to the feelings my Dad had about nicotine and caffeine. I have a friend who only smokes when drinking. Tells me that he has no desire to smoke any other time.

I was addicted to caffeine (five mugs (not cups), black coffee, no sugar, by early afternoon). Gave it up cold turkey (coffee, tea, cola) after I had my heart attack. Had the jitters for several weeks afterward.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Your story just demonstrates that people will do as they desire in the self-harm category with the time frame of their upbringing and those societal norms having a large influence upon which personal vices are chosen.

Can eating high cholesterol foods, high sugar content foods, or high caloric foods be considered an addiction if one is on the road to a heart attack, stroke, or diabetes?

Does the government, or a health insurance company, have the right to limit one's food intake?

Can one be addicted to social media?

Is there a "runner's high"?

Is sex addiction real?

Enough, let's get back to basketball.

I've got a game this afternoon. New (middle) school and new partner for me. Have heard that it's great middle school league. Long drive, but I'm looking forward to it. I will be double masking (had a few partners do this last year, before vaccinations) to prepare for our family's Christmas celebration.