For NCAA Officials Only ...

[BillyMac]

I'm not an NCAA official, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I thought that you college guys would be interested in this contradictory situation that appeared in a recent IAABO Inside The Lines publication.

I'm sure that most of the knowledgeable college guys we see on the Forum already know about this shot clock rule contradiction, and know how to properly handle it, but in case one hasn't, or doesn't, here it is:

Disclaimer: Not sure if this is an NCAA interpretation, or an IAABO interpretation.

Team A has the ball in their back court for a throw in. The Game Clock is at 29 seconds. The Shot Clock is off. Thrower-In A3 throws the ball to A4 in the front court. B3 fouls A4. The game clock reads 26 seconds. Team A is not in the bonus. Team A will receive the ball at one of the four spots and the Shot Clock will be turned back on. True or false?

The correct answer is False.

Unfortunately, we have two rules that are contradicting in this play:

1. Rule 2-11.2 states that the shot-clock operator “shall use the shot clock for the entire game, including extra periods, except where there is less time remaining on the game clock than on the shot clock, in which case the shot clock shall be turned off.”

2. Rule 2-11.6.c.1 states that the shot clock operator shall, “Reset' the shot clock “to 20 seconds or the time remaining (whichever is greater)when the following occurs:
1. A personal or technical foul is assessed to the defensive team and the ball is to be inbounded in the front court;”

The application of Rule 2-11.2 is correct. Turn the shot clock off. Otherwise, Team A would never get their full 30 seconds that they are entitled to by rule. See Rule 2-11.8 for exceptions to this rule that are listed in Rule 2-11.6.d.

[bob jenkins]

I don't think the rules are contradictory -- the "whichever is greater" just includes the time on the game clock (26 seconds n this instance).

You can have (at least in NCAAW) a situation where the shot clock is turned off and then turned back on again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You can have (at least in NCAAW) a situation where the shot clock is turned off and then turned back on again.

Disclaimer Update: Not sure if this is an NCAAM interpretation, an NCAAW interpretation, or just a worthless IAABO interpretation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't think the rules are contradictory -- the "whichever is greater" just includes the time on the game clock (26 seconds n this instance).

I see your point, and understand it, and it's foolish for me to comment on shot clock issues (I know more about quantum physics than I do about shot clocks), but the contradictory part is "the shot-clock operator shall use the shot clock for the entire game, including extra periods, except where there is less time remaining on the game clock than on the shot clock, in which case the shot clock shall be turned off” because it appears that shot clock does not remain "turned off".

However, by reading it in a certain way, I can see where it can appear to be non-contradictory.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I see your point, and understand it, and it's foolish for me to comment on shot clock issues (I know more about quantum physics than I do about shot clocks), but the contradictory part is "the shot-clock operator shall use the shot clock for the entire game, including extra periods, except where there is less time remaining on the game clock than on the shot clock, in which case the shot clock shall be turned off” because it appears that shot clock does not remain "turned off".

However, by reading it in a certain way, I can see where it can appear to be non-contradictory.

"turned off" and "remains off" are not synonymous.

A gets the ball with 29 seconds left. Shot clock it turned off. A attempts a try that hits the rim and A gets a rebound with 25 seconds left -- shot clock it tuned back on and is set to 20 seconds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"turned off" and "remains off" are not synonymous.

Agree.

[Raymond]

We (NCAA-M) have no problems with the rule. We know the shot may be turned back on. We are familiar with those situations.

Do you really think an NCAA official is coming here to find that out for the first time? Do you think there are peculiar shot clock situations that aren't addressed in the pregame or in the preseason clinics? If an NCAA official is confused about a rule or interpretation and needs help, there are avenues in place for that, including directly contacting JD Collins.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Do you really think an NCAA official is coming here to find that out for the first time?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm sure that most of the knowledgeable college guys we see on the Forum already know about this shot clock rule contradiction, and know how to properly handle it ...

Was not meant to be educational in any way. Just thought that those with an interest in shot clock rules, especially since high school shot clocks will be coming to some states soon, with rules in one form or another, would be interested in this.

Also thought that those of you that work college games would have some interesting comments on this, which bob jenkins and Raymond did.

Based on comments by bob jenkins and Raymond, this appears not to be an NCAA (M or W) interpretation, it appears to be just an IAABO interpretation, and it seems to be wrong.

Another (usually rare) case of IAABO not staying in its lane and interpreting instead of teaching (as happened when they jumped the gun the last time the NFHS switched from hit to release on free throws).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Based on comments by bob jenkins and Raymond, this appears not to be an NCAA (M or W) interpretation, it appears to be just an IAABO interpretation, and it seems to be wrong.

I won't speak for Raymond, but your interpretation of my comments is what is wrong.

I agree with the IAABO answer to the situation given

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The answer to the question was correct.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... but your interpretation of my comments is what is wrong. I agree with the IAABO answer to the situation given

Gotta go with the experts. I'd be foolish not to.

Originally Posted by Raymond

The answer to the question was correct.

So, false is correct.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"turned off" and "remains off" are not synonymous.

Still confused by the IAABO answer wording (true or false), but who cares? Play on.

I should have stuck to only reading the NFHS section of the IAABO Inside The Lines bulletin, as I usually do.

I always avoid reading the FIBA section of the bulletin, I should probably also stay away from the NCAAM, and NCAAW, sections as well, staying in my lane.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Still confused by the IAABO answer wording (true or false), but who cares? Play on.
.

There ARE situations where the shot clock is turned back on (and set to 20). The OP is NOT one of those. Leave the shot clock off in the OP. So FALSE is correct.

[Raymond]

The answer to the question was correct.

Shot clocks are set/reset to only 30 or 20 seconds, or shot clocks are left where they are. They are not turned back on and set to 26 seconds.



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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The answer to the question was correct.

I thought that both bob jenkins and Raymond said to turn the shot clock back on?

... and the Shot Clock will be turned back on. True or false? The correct answer is False.

Wouldn't comments by bob jenkins and Raymond make this true, i.e., turn the shot clock back on.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... NCAAW ... the shot clock is turned off and then turned back on again.

Originally Posted by Raymond

... (NCAA-M) ... the shot may be turned back on.

[JRutledge]

Billy,

You spend more time trying to dissect the things you will never do or apply in your career or life. The rule is simple and those that apply them know how to do this or we would not be there. Or we will not be there very long. IJS.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You spend more time trying to dissect the things you will never do or apply in your career or life.

Right now Connecticut prep schools use NCAA shot clock rules. We may be using a high school shot clock (with rules to be determined) next year in Connecticut. So I have a certain degree of curiosity about shot clocks.

Which is why this situation in the IAABO Inside The Lines bulletin caught my attention and then I posted the situation.

I figured that the college guys would just say, "Yeah, that's correct, and we are aware of the contradictory language", but that didn't happen, and posts were made that I replied to, even though I was way out of my league, but I can read English, and I believe that something smells fishy about the situation answer based on the college experts (not sarcastic) on this thread.