Strange Case Continued ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not sure what it meant by this, and who is "they"?

I don't technically work for IAABO. My checks are signed by school administrators. Technically, I'm not even assigned by IAABO. My local IAABO board hires an independent assigner (one year contract) who does all the assigning, except for state tournament games, where all assignments are made by the state association (CIAC). IAABO, on the local, state, or international level is an educational organization.

You reference IAABO and others reference IAABO as to when that organization says something, the buck stops there. I am licensed by state organizations, but we teach locally how to do things. I am a clinician with my state, but unless they tell us to communicate a specific situation we are asked to share, but this has rarely if ever come up outside of the year the POE was mentioned. I have also worked all my basketball state finals since that POE. We have a meeting before every State Final Tournament and go over all the new rules and POEs and mechanic requirements and I do not recall either the Head Clinician who runs the meeting or the Sports Administrator (in charge of the event and everything goes through him, which includes interpretations and all officiating procedures for that sport) emphasizing this topic.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You reference IAABO and others reference IAABO as to when that organization says something, the buck stops there.

Thus my usual disclaimer: " ... which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum".

And how many times have I posted, "When in Rome ..."?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thus my usual disclaimer: " ... which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum".

And how many times have I posted, "When in Rome ..."?

If you say all of that, then you would let some of that go. You keep talking about the NF's position as if they do not have their member states give interpretations which is often local anyway.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You keep talking about the NF's position as if they do not have their member states give interpretations which is often local anyway.

All Forum members don't speak IAABO language. We all don't speak Connecticut language. We all don't speak Illinois language.

But we do all speak NFHS language, it's the Rosetta Stone of basketball officiating.

Yes, local language could, can, does, and should override NFHS language, but to use such local language on the Forum, with no disclaimers, would turn the Forum into the Tower of Babel, making it difficult to get anything accomplished.

I would never state on the Forum that one is allowed to wear a black belt with one's uniform without also stating that this may only true in my little corner of Connecticut, it may not even be true for the entire state.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

All Forum members don't speak IAABO language. We all don't speak Connecticut language. We all don't speak Illinois language.

But we do all speak NFHS language, it's the Rosetta Stone of basketball officiating.

There is no "language" we just officiate. I do not care what people do around the country and certainly not states that I never see teams from those places. I just officiate.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes, local language could, can, does, and should override NFHS language, but to use such local language on the Forum, with no disclaimers, would turn the Forum into the Tower of Babel, making it difficult to get anything accomplished.

I work with officials in multiple states from time to time. No one goes around talking about, "Well in Ohio we do....." We call the game and we use the language of the level we are working. You are making it very hard on yourself if you think there are things we do not do universally. Referee Magazine does not discuss officiating from only Wisconsin when they publish their materials.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I would never state on the Forum that one is allowed to wear a black belt with one's uniform without also stating that this may only true in my little corner of Connecticut, it may not even be true for the entire state.

It is pretty universal not to wear a belt. We do not have to go around telling people not to do this, they can look and figure that out. But if they need training on the subject we direct them in the right direction. Kind of like this topic you keep bringing up.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no "language" we just officiate.

Officiate ... and post on the Forum.

We need some common language to communicate properly.

Deviating locally, or statewide, from NFHS rules and mechanics is fine, but only if one stays local, once one ventures and communicates outside of one's area, we need a common language to get anything accomplished, and lacking anything better, it NFHS language.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Officiate ... and post on the Forum.

We need some common language to communicate properly.

Deviating locally, or statewide, from NFHS rules and mechanics is fine, but only if one stays local, once one ventures and communicates outside of one's area, we need a common language to get anything accomplished, and lacking anything better, it NFHS language.

Most officials never come to any forum to discuss rules in detail. So not sure what language you are talking about related to one type of play or situation that most officials are not ruling on. That is not about language that is about understanding. Again if this is something you struggling with, talk with them in detail. Not sure why you are trying to get people here to agree with you?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is pretty universal not to wear a belt.

Glad you added the qualifier "pretty", because not here. Had a guy wear a belt in a state final only a few years ago.

IAABO International tells us beltless pants. We're a rebel outlier.

Statewide, we point to floor for a two point field goal try when the shooter has a foot touching three point line. Not IAABO International approved. Again, we're a rebel outlier. If I were to describe this mechanic on the Forum, I would clearly state that it may be only a local (state) mechanic, never expecting anybody else to use it, or ask anybody else to approve of it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Glad you added the qualifier "pretty", because not here. Had a guy wear a belt in a state final only a few years ago.

There is always an official that is going to look silly. Heck there are officials that wear white-soled shoes with mostly black shoes, but that does not mean I see that on a regular basis. Didn't say it was absolutely forbidden at all costs. Just not something people look fondly on. I have seen officials wear belts at the State Finals here, but the guys are rather old and workding small girl's basketball. Not a dig, just the only time I have seen it happen.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Statewide, we point to floor for a two point field goal try when the shooter has a foot touching three point line. If I were to describe this mechanic on the Forum, I would clearly state that it may be only a local (state) mechanic, never expecting anybody else to use it, or ask anybody else to approve of it.

That is a pretty universal thing at both the college and high school ranks. It is advocated to help any confusion and identify you saw the foot on the line and not have another official go up with a good 3 point shot. It would not consider this a state mechanic or even local thing. See officials do this all the time and not even sure this is mentioned in the CCA Book either. So not special to your little corner.

Peac

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Referee Magazine does not discuss officiating from only Wisconsin when they publish their materials.

Made my point. Thanks.

Because Referee Magazine has a wide audience, as does the Forum.

It can't publish articles about hundreds of areas with their own local rules or mechanics.

Who cares that in East Oshkosh, Wisconsin officials bounce the ball across the lane on frontcourt throwins (except for officials in East Oshkosh, Wisconsin)?

Only working one sport, I don't read Referee Magazine, but I would guess that it speaks NFHS language for high school rules.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Referee Magazine does not discuss officiating from only Wisconsin when they publish their materials.

Nor should anyone discuss local-only officiating here on the Forum without describing it as local-only.

Wait. "Nor should" is too strong. Sorry.

Discussing local-only officiating here on the Forum without describing it as local-only could lead to confusion, and hinder anything to be learned or accomplished.

Of course the big difference is that Referee Magazine will lose money if it only caters to a limited audience, the Forum won't.

Was never sure how the Forum makes money. No advertising. Who pays the electric bill? A billionaire benefactor?

Note: I made up the East Oshkosh, Wisconsin mechanic.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Because Referee Magazine has a wide audience, as does the Forum.

Only working one sport, I don't read Referee Magazine, but I would guess that it speaks NFHS language for high school rules.

Made my point. Thanks.

Nor should anyone discuss local-only officiating here on the Forum without describing it as local-only.

Wait. "Nor should" is too strong.

Discussing local-only officiating here on the Forum without describing it as local-only could lead to confusion, and hinder anything to be learned or accomplished.

Of course the big difference is that Referee Magazine will lose money if it caters to a limited audience, the Forum won't.

Was never sure how the Forum makes money. No advertising. Who pays the electric bill? A billionaire benefactor?

Again this shows this is your issue. There are people that can, do, and will ask questions if they are confused about something in multiple forums and social media places. They do in other national forums or places where officials do not only come from one place. And this forum is not what it used to be, so if you do not read Referee Magazine and you are not on Facebook or YouTube where all kinds of officiating rules and mechanics are discussed. I do not see anyone that confused by this and I have been in many officiating discussions on such places that are not my own.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is pretty universal not to wear a belt. We do not have to go around telling people not to do this, they can look and figure that out. But if they need training on the subject we direct them in the right direction.

The better to "pants" the officials on their way out? I gotta learn how this one started.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The better to "pants" the officials on their way out? I gotta learn how this one started.

There is a pretty universal standard in officiating in multiple sports that you buy things that are fitted. Same in football as no one would dare buy a hat that is not fitted (or adjustable). Same when I was a baseball umpire, you wore fitted hats. And there were other things you just did not do to look or appear like this was a profession, not a hobby. Some things have changed over the years, but not unusual. I wore a belt I believe my first year when I first started and bought pants at Wal-Mart. Quickly was told to not do that to look like you take this seriously and have not looked back. Similar to when they started requiring the collared shirt to go away. I started at the time when this changed within a year and people did not look back.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The better to "pants" the officials on their way out? I gotta learn how this one started.

Remember, my story is about Connecticut and only about Connecticut.

When I started officiating high school basketball over forty years go, most high school officials wore (black) belted pants. Only exceptions were the guys (it was only guys back then) who also worked college games, they usually wore beltless pants in both their college games and high school games (why waste money on two different types of pants). As the years passed by, many high school only officials noticed that the beltless pants looked pretty sharp and started wearing them, and the percentage of high school only officials wearing beltless pants increased year after year. Several years ago IAABO International outlawed belted pants and made beltless pants mandatory (not sure about the NFHS).

Here in little corner of Connecticut, being the rebels that we are, we decided to be outlaws and we still allow (black) belted pants (old dog, new tricks), but always strongly suggest beltless pants to the young'uns.

And no, we don't allow suspenders.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.