New Rules 2021-2022 Announced

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... layup attempts will go down as well, especially from boys who are able to jump and release the ball above the rim level. In these cases, the ball will be on its downward flight from the backboard.

Let's be serious and keep in mind who plays games under NFHS rules? Interscholastic teams, including girls high school teams, and middle school teams of both genders. Thousands of games. Tens of thousand of players. What percentage of layup attempts in these games are immediately on the way down after the release and then immediately "reflecting" downward off the backboard?

[Kansas Ref]

Are youall just trying to appease the fans when they wonder/shout why a goaltending is not made in a HS game? Is that why you all are advocates of switching to the NCAA stance on goaltending? When will the compromising stop? Lol

Oh and a final

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Are youall just trying to appease the fans when they wonder/shout why a goaltending is not made in a HS game? Is that why you all are advocates of switching to the NCAA stance on goaltending? When will the compromising stop? Lol

Oh and a final

Fans do not come into the play for me about this rule. What I would like is some level of standardization, but I think the NCAA rule is harder at that level because there is much more above-the-rim play. At least it is a line of demarcation as opposed to some other stance on what be a total judgment call. That is why I said I am not necessarily a fan of that rule change to the NCAA level. I was not a fan of the rule change at the NCAA level either when it happened, but we are here. Not changing back.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

I'm trying to provide for a consistent guideline for goaltending enforcement. Having balls of the backboard being considered on their downward flight, or changing the rule to read "a try in flight, with a chance of scoring, on its downdward flight or off the backboard" would allow for more consistent enforcement of the goaltending rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I'm trying to provide for a consistent guideline for goaltending enforcement. Having balls of the backboard being considered on their downward flight, or changing the rule to read "a try in flight, with a chance of scoring, on its downward flight or off the backboard" would allow for more consistent enforcement of the goaltending rules.

... only for those who officiate both NCAA basketball and NFHS basketball, and possibly do a poor job at one, or both.

Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet (Rudyard Kipling, The Ballad of East and West, 1889).

While it may be nice if all basketball rule sets (boys, girls, men, women, middle school, high school, college, international, professional) were the same, right now they're not (probably never will be) and if one wants to officiate multiple basketball levels, it behooves one to become proficient at multiple rule sets, and to not expect any help or short cuts from rule making organizations.

For many of us who stick to officiating only one level (or only one level in a season), it's a big fat non-issue.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While it may be nice if all basketball rule sets (boys, girls, men, women, middle school, high school, college, international, professional) were the same, right now they're not (probably never will be) and if one wants to officiate multiple basketball levels, it behooves one to become proficient at multiple rule sets, and to not expect any help or short cuts from rule making organizations.

For those of us who stick to officiating only one level (or only one level in a season), it's a big fat non-issue.

The position that certain rules share the same rule really has nothing to do with you working only one level. It just makes the situation consistent so that everyone understands what is to be ruled. When we have a different rule at multiple levels and vastly different applications, it causes confusion. So it is not about what level you only do, because chances are many people including the officials watch and consume other levels as well.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The position that certain rules share the same rule really has nothing to do with you working only one level. It just makes the situation consistent so that everyone understands what is to be ruled. When we have a different rule at multiple levels and vastly different applications, it causes confusion. So it is not about what level you only do, because chances are many people including the officials watch and consume other levels as well.

Agree. But the only confused observers that really count are officials, nobody else matters, not fans, not game announcers.

As a one level NFHS official, I watch NBA and NCAA all the time on television and I never get confused (but sometimes have questions), but I will admit that a few "one level officials" might get confused, especially rookies, and those that don't take rule study seriously.

In my opinion, it is the multi-level official who is most likely to matter if they confuse rules that adversely impact game decisions. The overwhelmingly majority do a great job, only a minor few don't, but all multi-level officials shouldn't expect rule making organizations to make their jobs easier with the same rules, sure, it's nice when it happens, it's probably better for the game, but it shouldn't be expected. All you multi-level guys know this going in before you make the jump between levels, that this will be a part of the multi-level jump challenge.

In my opinion, there probably fewer single-level officials out there seriously thinking, "I seriously wish that all basketball rules were the same", than multi-level officials seriously thinking, "I seriously wish that all basketball rules were the same".

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For many of us who stick to officiating only one level (or only one level in a season), it's a big fat non-issue.

Note: As a conciliatory gesture to JRutledge, I changed "those" to "many".

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The position that certain rules share the same rule really has nothing to do with you working only one level. It just makes the situation consistent so that everyone understands what is to be ruled. When we have a different rule at multiple levels and vastly different applications, it causes confusion. So it is not about what level you only do, because chances are many people including the officials watch and consume other levels as well.

Peace

I agree. Coaches, especially those who come from a college playing background, may often be confused about specific rules differences between that level and the high school level, and as such may teach the players things that are inappropriate for the high school level, because of the rules differences. I have had to explain to high school coaches why pass interference is not an automatic first down while working football games, even though the rule has been different for over 5 years already!

In basketball, there are fewer differences, but some of them are very relevant for gameplay (for example, the goaltending rule, especially for boys' games, the backcourt violation rule (the offense cannot be last to touch the ball in the frontcourt, and first to touch the ball in the backcourt, even on a ball deflected by the defense, per high school rules), and the differences in the closely-guarded rule). If the differences can be reduced, then it becomes easier for all stakeholders to understand and apply the rules of basketball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

If the differences can be reduced, then it becomes easier for all stakeholders to understand and apply the rules of basketball.

Well put ilyazhito. While I actually agree with your statement, it will never happen.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... sure, it's nice when it happens, it's probably better for the game ...

And considering all stakeholders, officials should be the least likely to expect help from rules making organizations in reducing confusing differences. After all, officials are supposed to be what'cha call rules experts.

Helping the game? Sure. Helping all stakeholders? Sure. Helping confused multi-level officials? Low on my list, officials get paid the big bucks not to be confused.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Well put ilyazhito. While I actually agree with your statement, it will never happen.



And considering all stakeholders, officials should be the least likely to expect help from rules making organizations in reducing confusing differences. After all, officials are supposed to be what'cha call rules experts.

Helping the game? Sure. Helping all stakeholders? Sure. Helping confused multi-level officials? Low on my list, officials get paid the big bucks not to be confused.

I've never had a conversation with an official who works some of combination of WNBA/G-League/NCAA-M/NCAA-W/High School who wanted the rules to be streamlined.

I have worked with officials who don't take the time to learn the rules of a particular level, but I've run into that with single-level officials just as much, if not more, as multi-level officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Well put ilyazhito. While I actually agree with your statement, it will never happen.



And considering all stakeholders, officials should be the least likely to expect help from rules making organizations in reducing confusing differences. After all, officials are supposed to be what'cha call rules experts.

Helping the game? Sure. Helping all stakeholders? Sure. Helping confused multi-level officials? Low on my list, officials get paid the big bucks not to be confused.

Actually, the reason many people want rules to be the same is that they like or understand the rule from a particular level. Or they see something over and over again in the place they watch the most. How many people watch a lot of high school basketball without a kid playing at that level? It has little to do with a multi-level official. Coaches, players, and fans all ask for rules similarities all the time, not simply officials. Most officials already understand that the rules will be different if they work at different levels.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... I will admit that a few "one level officials" might get confused, especially rookies, and those that don't take rule study seriously.

Originally Posted by Raymond

I have worked with officials who don't take the time to learn the rules of a particular level, but I've run into that with single-level officials just as much, if not more, than multi-level officials.

Maybe part of the reason why they can't/won't/don't move up.

Took a whole lotta tryin'
Just to get up that hill.
Now we're up in the big leagues
Gettin' our turn at bat.
As long as we live, it's you and me baby
There ain't nothin wrong with that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

All you multi-level guys know this going in before you make the jump between levels, that this will be a part of the multi-level jump challenge.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most officials already understand that the rules will be different if they work at different levels.

Agree.