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Old Mon Feb 08, 2021, 10:48pm
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2021 NFHS Questionnaire

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5VXCYP8

It is that time of the year once again.
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Old Mon Feb 08, 2021, 10:52pm
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19. Eliminating the “loss of coaching box” for any technical fouls (direct or indirect) charged to the head coach.

Once again the only proposed rule change on the questionnaire that I would love to see. Too bad it will never pass.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 11:27am
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2021 NFHS Questionnaire Text ...

Checkup on present 2020-21 Rules – Were the following rule changes satisfactory?
1. Adding a signal to end the player replacement interval.
2. Reorganizing and clarifying the process to use when a coach or school personnel is not available to sit on the bench.
3. Clarifying that the warning to a coach may be used, but it is not mandatory.

Have you observed any of the following this year?
1. Increasing number of hand-checking fouls called.
2. More illegal screens being set but not called on the perimeter.
3. Officials understanding legal guarding position when adjudicating block/charge calls.
4. Officials more consistently using the proper NFHS mechanics.
5. Increasing number of games with one team possessing the ball for longer than 30 seconds before attempting a shot.
6. Increasing number of three-point shots attempted.

About the rules for 2022:
1. Beginning with a team’s seventh foul, awarding, in each quarter, a bonus free throw if the first free throw is successful. Then with the team’s eighth foul in each quarter, and extending into any subsequent overtime period, awarding two free throws regardless of the success of the first attempt. At the end of each quarter, with the exception of any subsequent overtime period, zeroing out the team foul total.
2. During a quarter, awarding no free throws for the first four common fouls and then, starting with the fifth foul in each quarter, awarding two free throws for each common foul. Reset fouls to zero at the end of each quarter.
3. Resetting team fouls to zero at the end of each quarter, eliminating one-and-one situations and awarding two free throws for the sixth and all subsequent team fouls in a quarter.
4. Awarding bonus free throws beginning with a team’s sixth foul each quarter (unless the foul is a player-control or team-control foul).
5. Resetting a team’s foul count to zero at the end of each quarter [except following the fourth quarter if overtime is necessary; in such case a team’s foul count at the end of regulation play will carry over into overtime(s)].
6. Implementing the “No Jump Ball” rule to start the game, with some form of alternating-possession protocol.
7. Eliminating the jump ball and beginning the game with the visiting team receiving the ball and using alternating possession the rest of the contest.
8. Eliminating the jump ball and beginning the game with a coin flip and using alternating possession the rest of the contest.
9. Eliminating the jump ball to start each overtime and continuing to use the alternating-possession arrow since overtimes are a “continuation” of the fourth quarter.
10. Allowing use of a 30-second shot clock by state association adoption.
11. The NFHS approving a 30-second shot clock by state association adoption.
12. The NFHS adopting a 30-second shot clock.
13. Implementing a 35-second shot clock.
14. Changing the rule to disallow coaches to call a time-out during a live ball.
15. Permitting coaches to call a time-out only during dead-ball periods.
16. Permitting only players on the court to request and be granted a time-out during a live ball.
17. Requiring the home team to wear a contrasting dark color (the darker of the school colors or black).
18. Making cloth-tied headbands legal, as long as the extensions are tucked in.
19. Eliminating the “loss of the coaching box” for any technical fouls (direct or indirect) charged to the head coach.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 09, 2021 at 04:49pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 11:44am
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If And Only If ...

Not a big fan of keeping track of team fouls by quarter. Instead of two chances for correctable errors caused by the table per game, it will be four chances of correctable errors caused by the table per game.

Note: For those of you that don't work middle school games like me, middle schools often have student scorekeepers and often have scoreboards that don't show team fouls.

However, that being said, it could be worth resetting to zero each quarter if, and only if, all one and ones were eliminated. Always two shots instead of one and one means fewer chances of rebounding action contact and/or lane violations, possibly fewer chances for correctable errors (zero, or two; instead of zero, one and one, or two on common fouls), and of course, fewer chances to screw up substitution opportunities (six players, four players, sit a tick).
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 09, 2021 at 12:10pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 11:51am
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No Jump Balls ...

Implementing the “No Jump Ball” rule to start the game, with some form of alternating-possession protocol.
Eliminating the jump ball and beginning the game with the visiting team receiving the ball and using alternating possession the rest of the contest.

Yes and yes. Don't even consider a coin toss. Keep it simple. Road team always gets to bat first.

Hey Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. How do you like them apples?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 09, 2021 at 11:57am.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 11:56am
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The Ayes Have It ...

Changing the rule to disallow coaches to call a time-out during a live ball.
Permitting coaches to call a time-out only during dead-ball periods.
Permitting only players on the court to request and be granted a time-out during a live ball.
Making cloth-tied headbands legal, as long as the extensions are tucked in.
Eliminating the “loss of the coaching box” for any technical fouls (direct or indirect) charged to the head coach.


Yes. Yes. Yes (back to the good old days).

Yes. Yes.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 12:00pm
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Let Me Root, Root, Root For The Home Team ...

Requiring the home team to wear a contrasting dark color (the darker of the school colors or black).

What? Huh? Why?

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 09, 2021 at 12:09pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 12:02pm
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The only change I would want to bonus rules is the NCAA-W change - eliminating 1-and-1, shooting 2 on the fifth foul of each quarter. Anything different than that other than the current rule would equate to "being different for the sake of being different." Would be interesting to see if such a change would cut down on the whining about the foul count.

Don't want to see FED go to the NCAA-M rule and only let players call TO during live ball. It's a bad rule.

Any reduction in fashion police rules is a good thing.

Elimination of the seatbelt rule is by far the one change I want more than any others.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 12:25pm
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Is This Rugby ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Don't want to see FED ... only let players call TO during live ball. It's a bad rule.
I'm old enough to have worked both in high school games (this change was the high school rule in ancient times). Only players requesting live ball timeouts had few negatives. Adding coaches to the mix added the situations of requiring the official to glance away from player action on the court over to the bench to verify it was the head coach at often challenging times (loose ball on floor scrum).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 09, 2021 at 04:51pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 12:50pm
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Microbursts Of Mayhem ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Implementing the “No Jump Ball” rule to start the game, with some form of alternating-possession protocol.
Eliminating the jump ball and beginning the game with the visiting team receiving the ball and using alternating possession the rest of the contest.

Yes and yes. Don't even consider a coin toss. Keep it simple. Road team always gets to bat first.

Hey Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. How do you like them apples?
The jump ball is as outdated as laced basketballs, peach baskets, and chicken wire cages around the perimeter of the court. For generations of players and fans they are a forgettable anachronistic formality. Coaches bemoan inconsistency in officials tossing the ball, and unevenly governed rules about the movement of players during the jump ball (how many officials start the game by incorrectly stating "Don't move" to all the players?), and some officials are weary of policing these microbursts of mayhem.

Now that we only have about one jump ball per game, many officials (players and coaches) don't know the rules as well as we knew them back in ancient times. Back in ancient times every official knew all the permutations of the jump ball rules, before the toss, after the toss, after the tip, jumpers, nonjumpers on the circle, non jumpers off the circle, backwards, forwards, inside out, and upside down. Officials had to know these jump ball restrictions because in some games you could have dozens of jump balls, in three different jump ball circles: the jump ball to start the game, each period, overtime periods, and all situations where we now use the alternating possession arrow to adjudicate (held balls, etc.). Officials, players, and coaches all knew the jump ball rules, some coaches even had different jump ball plays for each of the three jump ball circles depending on whether one expected to win or lose the jump ball.

How well do otherwise very good officials know, understand, and adjudicate the jump ball rules today? Only memorizing and adjudicating the most egregious violations (ball touched on the way up, ball touched three times by jumper, ball caught by jumper), especially in a two person game, often ignoring (or not being able to fully observe) all eight nonjumpers (and the two jumpers)?

How can the non-tossing official (two person game) accurately and realistically observe (with peripheral vision) all eight nonjumpers (and often the two jumpers) for violations, especially when jump ball rules are so complex (and we only see a jump ball about once a game), especially the seldom called violations (those other than ball touched on the way up, ball touched three times by jumper, ball caught by jumper), when such violations happen in a split second, keeping in mind that some have described jump balls as microbursts of mayhem.

It's the twentieth-first century. We now have alternating possession arrows. The alternating possession arrow was invented by some genius for a good reason, so let's get rid of all jump balls, give the ball to the visitors (neutral court: lower seeded team, usually wearing dark jerseys, usually visitor on scoreboard) to start the game, and use the possession arrow for the rest of the game, including overtimes.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 01:38pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 12:50pm
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I do not want to get rid of the jump ball. We do it once and it is fairer to start the game IMO. We just need to get better at it which almost no one complains about anyway.

Bring in the shot clock. I am honestly tired of having this debate. Then we will see how good teams can coach. A 35-second shot clock would be great. We do not need all the college and NBA provisions for offensive rebounds. Keep it simple.

There really does not need to be a change to the bonus situation. Keep it the same. Again, different kids unless you change the time in the game and add a few minutes to the half like 18 minutes halves or 20. Otherwise, keep things the same with the bonus.

They did not ask, but I wish they would change the traveling rule. Give players the "zero step" and then steps after this. The game is changing and everyone wants offense. Or allow the spin move on some level by giving some kind of wording that allows it similar to a jump stop. I hear the NCAA is going to some kind of model like this.

Peace
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 02:17pm
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Consistency ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I do not want to get rid of the jump ball. We do it once and it is fairer to start the game ...
Agree on fairness if all officials could consistently toss the ball properly, if all officials knew all the permutations of all the complex jump ball rules (before the toss, after the toss, after the tip, jumpers, nonjumpers on the circle, non jumpers off the circle, not just the most egregious violations (ball touched on the way up, ball touched three times by jumper, ball caught by jumper) and adjudicated such properly and consistently, if all officials knew all the rules governing designated jumpers (vestigial rules poorly replaced by the NFHS going back to the origin of the alternating possession arrow), and if all officials did everything above well in just a split second of what some have described as a microburst of mayhem to start each and every game (often by just two officials, one who is just trying to keep all his teeth and get out of the way to not get elbowed by one of the jumpers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
We just need to get better at it ...
Agree. Been waiting for this since 1985 when the NFHS adopted the alternating possession arrow.

That's thirty-five years. Let's not hold our breath until that happens.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 09, 2021 at 02:35pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 03:50pm
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Looking For The Gunga Din Of Basketball Officials ...

To all Forum members:

Can you recite all the jump ball rules without peeking at the rulebook? Based on original positions of players, jumpers, nonjumpers, on the circle, off the circle, who can move, limits of movement, crossing lines, before the toss, during the toss, after the toss, after the tip, add to that the limitations of the jumpers; and process, interpret, and enforce, all these rules within the fraction of a second that it takes for a jump ball?

Be honest.

If so, you're a better basketball official than I am (with apologies to Rudyard Kipling).

Alright Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. I see you raising your hand. You can put your hand down now.

Please put your hand down Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. I see you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If so, you're a better basketball official than I am.
Well, probably also for a lot of other reasons.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 01:41pm.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 06:45pm
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The only change that I advocate is to Stop appealing/deferring to the arrow to determine possession when the a try for goal gets stuck in the ring support and the ball is put out of play; just give the ball to the other team.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2021, 06:49pm
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S*it, What's The Rule ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If so, you're a better basketball official than I am (with apologies to Rudyard Kipling).
(Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., Do Not Read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Girls varsity prep school game. My partner, a veteran who's been officiating for forty-five years, is the referee in a two person game.

It's the start of the game. He has already checked to make sure that the jumpers are facing the correct baskets, and he has already checked with the "speaking" captains if they are ready to play. So we're all set to go, and he moves toward the center of the circle, and is about to make the toss, when one of the coaches instructs his players to change positions with a teammate. One player starts to move onto the circle, and the other starts to move off the circle, with their two opponents following them.

As the umpire, I immediately think,"S*it. What's the rule? Do I wait until the toss is made and call a violation? Do I call the violation now? Is it a double violation? Is it a violation? Just let it go, since I'm not 100% sure about the rule?"

Luckily, my partner, with a cooler head than me, he has less hair, backs away from the circle and has everybody reset, he tosses the ball, and we go on our merry way.

All you veteran Forum members have heard this spiel from me before. No more jump balls. Start the game ... with the visitors getting possession first.

And I know that I should have known the rules better than I did in this game. Back before that alternating possession arrow, when we had several jump balls a game, at three different circles, between any two players, not just the tallest ones, when coaches had a few jump ball plays, I knew these rules like the back of my hand. I could quote them in my sleep. Now, with, usually, one jump ball a game, I just assume, wrongly, that the ball will get tossed, everybody will obey the rules, and we'll get the game started.

OK. I've said my piece. I've had my catharsis. Now, could someone please help me down from this soapbox so that I don't hurt myself. I'm not as young as I used to be ... I'll take out the old rulebook and study up on the many jump ball rules. Fool me once. Shame on me. Fool me twice. Shame on me, again.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 11:43am.
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