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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 09:52am
Livin' The Dream
 
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New one last night

VISITING team is down by 10 with 15 secs left in game come down and drain a 3 pointer. one of the VISITING players grabs the ball after it goes through the net and just holds it, bear hugs it actually. I am thinking, "what is he doing?" the clock is running and they are still down 7. I hear 'just hold it' from the bench. one of the home team players actually tries to grab the ball....i snapped out of my confusion and blow my whistle and issue a T. The visiting team bench asks me if there should have been a warning first, and i explained that this was an intentional act, an unsporting act and the T was warranted. I gave the T to the player that was holding the ball....my question is, should this have been a TEAM technical rather than a player tech?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 10:19am
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It should have been a team warning for delay for interfering with the ball after a goal, not a technical foul. If it had been the team's second delay, it would be a team technical foul not charged to the player.

I suppose you "could" rule it unsporting, but why break into jail and give a T to the team that's going to lose when the rules give you a better alternative?

Last edited by SC Official; Thu Feb 11, 2021 at 10:21am.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 10:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
It should have been a team warning for delay for interfering with the ball after a goal, not a technical foul. If it had been the team's second delay, it would be a team technical foul not charged to the player.

I suppose you "could" rule it unsporting, but why break into jail and give a T to the team that's going to lose when the rules give you a better alternative?
So if the team had just gone up 1 point you'd call it differently? Or would you add time back to the clock?

Either you're allowing the team to do something shady and helping them win, which stinks, or you're enforcing the rules in a manner not laid out in the rule book.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 10:42am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw1ns View Post
VISITING team is down by 10 with 15 secs left in game come down and drain a 3 pointer. one of the VISITING players grabs the ball after it goes through the net and just holds it, bear hugs it actually. I am thinking, "what is he doing?" the clock is running and they are still down 7. I hear 'just hold it' from the bench. one of the home team players actually tries to grab the ball....i snapped out of my confusion and blow my whistle and issue a T. The visiting team bench asks me if there should have been a warning first, and i explained that this was an intentional act, an unsporting act and the T was warranted. I gave the T to the player that was holding the ball....my question is, should this have been a TEAM technical rather than a player tech?
You were right not to do anything until the home team attempted to get the ball. At that point it should have been a warning. I would not have been in any hurry to blow the whistle.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
So if the team had just gone up 1 point you'd call it differently? Or would you add time back to the clock?

Either you're allowing the team to do something shady and helping them win, which stinks, or you're enforcing the rules in a manner not laid out in the rule book.

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What are you talking about? How is assessing a delay warning in this situation not correct by rule?
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 10:53am
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You said they were going lose anyway so why do something he "could" do. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the way you worded it seems off.

This rule seems to need amending as it can be taken advantage of, which isn't in the spirit of the game.

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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 11:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
You said they were going lose anyway so why do something he "could" do. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the way you worded it seems off.

This rule seems to need amending as it can be taken advantage of, which isn't in the spirit of the game.

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Any supervisor I have ever worked for is not going to be happy if he gets a phone call from the losing coach asking why they were given a T instead of a delay warning in the OP's situation. Contrarily, no one can argue with a straight face that this is not a delay of game situation.

If you think an unsporting T is the better option in this situation than a delay warning - I don't know what to tell you. You are breaking into jail by going straight to a T here, and possibly misapplying the rules as well.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 11:15am
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Is this play that much different from the case play where the teams hits the ball into the stands to induce a DoG warning? Doesn't that play give the official to options to assess a technical foul or just let the clock expire while the ball is retrieved?
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 11:23am
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Originally Posted by Altor View Post
Is this play that much different from the case play where the teams hits the ball into the stands to induce a DoG warning? Doesn't that play give the official to options to assess a technical foul or just let the clock expire while the ball is retrieved?
Key is "gives the official the option." Just because you have the option to do something doesn't mean it's the best choice.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 11:30am
Livin' The Dream
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
Is this play that much different from the case play where the teams hits the ball into the stands to induce a DoG warning? Doesn't that play give the official to options to assess a technical foul or just let the clock expire while the ball is retrieved?
That's kinda what went through my mind as it was happening...recalling that play and the intent that went with it. I probably would have just let the clock run out, but one of the home team players starting grabbing and wrestling him for the ball....thats when i issued the T.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Any supervisor I have ever worked for is not going to be happy if he gets a phone call from the losing coach asking why they were given a T instead of a delay warning in the OP's situation. Contrarily, no one can argue with a straight face that this is not a delay of game situation.



If you think an unsporting T is the better option in this situation than a delay warning - I don't know what to tell you. You are breaking into jail by going straight to a T here, and possibly misapplying the rules as well.
I'm not saying give the tech. I'm asking you that stuff based on what you said. Why even bring up the idea of possibly giving the unsportsmanlike?

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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:51pm
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There is more going on here. Perhaps the point differential in the game matters for a tie-breaker or playoff seeding.

What this team did was more than merely knock the ball away following a goal. They grabbed it, deliberately held it, and caused a confrontation with the opponent when he rightfully tried to obtain it. I would issue a player technical foul in this situation for delay of game. The rules book language is something akin to preventing the ball from being made promptly live.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:55pm
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Tangled Web ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
This rule seems to need amending as it can be taken advantage of, which isn't in the spirit of the game.
Agree.

With the Google Document link below, find my research on this and similar situations. For years I've been meaning to write on article on such situations but can't seem to come up with any "solid" recommendations based on the rules, or on casebook plays. It's just research and not even close to an article, but it shows the complexity of the issue.

The terminology that unsporting fouls are "not limited to" makes it a valid option.

The terminology of preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play makes it another valid option.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 12, 2021 at 12:27pm.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:56pm
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Not Limited To ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
... more than merely knock the ball away following a goal. They grabbed it, deliberately held it, and caused a confrontation with the opponent when he rightfully tried to obtain it. I would issue a player technical foul in this situation for delay of game ...
I would rather go the unsporting; or preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play route.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 12, 2021 at 12:24pm.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 01:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
There is more going on here. Perhaps the point differential in the game matters for a tie-breaker or playoff seeding.

What this team did was more than merely knock the ball away following a goal. They grabbed it, deliberately held it, and caused a confrontation with the opponent when he rightfully tried to obtain it. I would issue a player technical foul in this situation for delay of game. The rules book language is something akin to preventing the ball from being made promptly live.
Agree. When the player refused to release the ball, it moved from being a simple delay to preventing the ball from becoming live..

Quote:
10-4 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player must not
ART. 5...Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play
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