First Night....

[CDcoach]

Well I stepped into the umpire's shoes tonight. Had a double header with 9-10 year olds.

It all went pretty smooth. Coaches told me that I was the best they had this year.

They did question me calling as many balks as I did. Told them they couldn't yell "SWING" in the field (I'm assuming that's a league rule...don't think that's mentioned in any rule book ). And of course a few close calls that all coaches think they have a better angle on. The rest of it was due to me having a 14 yr old in the field who was tenative to do ANYTHING.

The balks I called were because pitchers came set and turned thier shoulders...constantly!

Also about this new ump. He wouldn't help me on anything. Run-downs...he would not take half of the play, so I ended up running back and forth...got tiring. One time I even had to run down to third base from PU and chase it between 2nd and third. That was pretty ugly.

And here is my question after my first night...
Top of 2nd inning 2 outs. Count is 2-2 pitched strike but catcher from my view looked like he trapped it. So F2 throws down to first, inning over. No big deal. After the game the board member on duty just asked about it. I said I had a bad view an that's a tough call. If you have a hard time seeing it how do you handle it?

[cowbyfan1]

Your partner should help you on that. If you look to him he should either give an out signal or point down. It sounds to me like you had a partner that either didn't have a clue or didn't care to, so it sounds like you handled it right.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by CDcoach
The balks I called were because pitchers came set and turned thier shoulders...constantly!

"Turning shoulders" is not necessarily a balk. You must judge it to be a feint to first. Were the runners fooled? Were you? If not, let it go.

[Huskerblue]

In FED, turning the shoulders whil in contact with the rubber is a BALK. However, at this level, I would give a few , "don't do that's", and let the coach take care of it.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by CDcoach
Well I stepped into the umpire's shoes tonight. Had a double header with 9-10 year olds.

It all went pretty smooth. Coaches told me that I was the best they had this year.

They did question me calling as many balks as I did. Told them they couldn't yell "SWING" in the field (I'm assuming that's a league rule...don't think that's mentioned in any rule book ). And of course a few close calls that all coaches think they have a better angle on. The rest of it was due to me having a 14 yr old in the field who was tenative to do ANYTHING.

The balks I called were because pitchers came set and turned thier shoulders...constantly!

Also about this new ump. He wouldn't help me on anything. Run-downs...he would not take half of the play, so I ended up running back and forth...got tiring. One time I even had to run down to third base from PU and chase it between 2nd and third. That was pretty ugly.

And here is my question after my first night...
Top of 2nd inning 2 outs. Count is 2-2 pitched strike but catcher from my view looked like he trapped it. So F2 throws down to first, inning over. No big deal. After the game the board member on duty just asked about it. I said I had a bad view an that's a tough call. If you have a hard time seeing it how do you handle it?

Congrats on your 1st game Coach!

I have some thoughts and questions tho.

Questions first.

What rules are they playing under in the league there that you're calling Balks in 9-10 yr old division?

Are they leading off?

If not, why are you concerned with a pitcher turning his shoulders?

Why are you chasing down a rundown between 2nd and 3rd when your responsibility as PU is the Plate?

My thoughts.

As far as the rundown. Position yourself in foul territory between 3rd and home. You can see a swipe tag be in position to make a call at third, and also get back to the plate if need be. If your P isn't there to make his call at 2nd, let everyone go crazy on him, he will learn where to be the next time. Plus, you can still help out on the call if need be. If you're chasing, and there is a play at the plate and you're chasing to make a call, you are the one who is goin' to get the flack, especially when a run is at stake.

As far as the "SWING" batter, I don't allow it. Lil' League Rule 4.06 (2) (3). To me it is unsportsmanlike. Especially by the catcher when the ball is coming in the zone.

And to your question, "If you have a hard time seeing it how do you handle it?"

Wait! If you don't see it wait and let the players determine the play. If you don't make any call, they should know that they need to make a play.

And yet another Question. What rules are you playing under that on a dropped third strike, a batter/runner can advance in 9-10 yr olds?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bob jenkins


"Turning shoulders" is not necessarily a balk. You must judge it to be a feint to first. Were the runners fooled? Were you? If not, let it go.

I do not think you should just let it go. You might not call a balk, but it is to your benefit as an umpire to get them to stop doing it to some extent so you do not have to call it at all. So usually sending the catcher to talk to the pitcher works if I am the plate umpire and telling them myself as the base umpire works too. I just think it is good preventative officiating to let them be aware that their actions might be considered a balk at some point. But then again that is what I do and what works for me.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by CDcoach
Well I stepped into the umpire's shoes tonight. Had a double header with 9-10 year olds.

It all went pretty smooth. Coaches told me that I was the best they had this year.

We're never as good or as bad as they say.

They did question me calling as many balks as I did. Told them they couldn't yell "SWING" in the field (I'm assuming that's a league rule...don't think that's mentioned in any rule book ).

LL suggests that conversation only be directed to teammates.


The balks I called were because pitchers came set and turned thier shoulders...constantly!

What bob said.

Also about this new ump. He wouldn't help me on anything. Run-downs...he would not take half of the play, so I ended up running back and forth...got tiring. One time I even had to run down to third base from PU and chase it between 2nd and third. That was pretty ugly.

Yes, we learn about the importance of pre-gaming just this way.

[CDcoach]

Thanks for all the replies.

Here is a follow-up:
""Turning shoulders" is not necessarily a balk. You must judge it to be a feint to first. Were the runners fooled? Were you? If not, let it go."
It is my understanding that if the pitcher is set he may not turn his shoulders to look towards a BR. Talked to UIC who was eval. me and he agreed that they were balks.

"What rules are they playing under in the league there that you're calling Balks in 9-10 yr old division?"
Well in the 9-10 yr old leauge they get 1 warning balk. You still call balk like normal but runners do not advance until the pitcher does it twice.

"Are they leading off?"
Yes and they are able to steal.

"Why are you chasing down a rundown between 2nd and 3rd when your responsibility as PU is the Plate?"
Because the rundown between 2nd and 3rd was the lead runner (no play at plate) so I was at 3rd to help my BU with a run-down. I then found out that he wasn't there to help me. I was able to keep a pretty good angle on everything and didn't want to have a call missed because of his screw up. I talked to him between innings about it and he seemed a little confused. UIC said that I worked my @$$ off on that stuff and I got a bonus .

"What rules are you playing under that on a dropped third strike, a batter/runner can advance in 9-10 yr olds?"
9-10 yr olds is the first division where this is allowed in that league. Anything younger and it is an automatic out. I don't agree with it but that's the rule. About 80% of the time the catcher drops the third strike.

"In FED, turning the shoulders whil in contact with the rubber is a BALK. However, at this level, I would give a few , "don't do that's", and let the coach take care of it."
I allowed several "don't do that's" and just looked at the coach...he nodded and would talk to the pitcher after a glare at me. I eventually jus thought that after getting thier "warning balk" and a few glances at the coach I had to call them because it was so obvious. I guess maybe the other umpires just haven't been calling them and the coaches weren't used to balks being called. The coaches on 1st and thrid were mad when they weren't called but while in the dugout they were irritated that we did call em...difficult situation.

Thanks again.

[greymule]

I have never heard of a 9–10 league that allowed runners to advance on an uncaught third strike or allowed leading and stealing.

I strongly suspect that the people who designed the rules for those kids did not grow up playing baseball.

[chris s]

Originally posted by greymule
I have never heard of a 9–10 league that allowed runners to advance on an uncaught third strike or allowed leading and stealing.

I strongly suspect that the people who designed the rules for those kids did not grow up playing baseball.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~`
The "Mustang" division, 9-10's. I work this for 5 different city leagues. 3 of them allow lead off and stealing, balks are enforced( I tell coaches that "intent to decieve shall govern" is the way they will be called)The other 2 do it like LL, runners can't leave till ball reaches catcher, if they do, like SB, they are out! Better than those 2 pages of "if arunner leaves early...." that LL has. PONY allows either option for regular league play, come all-star tourneys, regular baseball. Guess which teams are having problems then......

[Bfair]

Originally posted by CDcoach
Count is 2-2 pitched strike but catcher from my view looked like he trapped it. So F2 throws down to first, inning over. No big deal. After the game the board member on duty just asked about it. I said I had a bad view an that's a tough call. If you have a hard time seeing it how do you handle it?

If you are not sure if he caught it clean or not, and you get no help from pard, then it's not caught.

You are going to be sure if the ball is well away from F2 that he didn't catch it--that's obvious. So anytime you are unsure, it's because he's right there with the ball. With that said, even if your decision of considering it "no catch" is wrong, the BR should still be toast and an easy play---if not just a mere tag---for F2.

If he wants the guarantee of the catch call, make him prove it to you.
If in doubt, consider not caught.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by CDcoach
Thanks for all the replies.

Here is a follow-up:
""Turning shoulders" is not necessarily a balk. You must judge it to be a feint to first. Were the runners fooled? Were you? If not, let it go."
It is my understanding that if the pitcher is set he may not turn his shoulders to look towards a BR. Talked to UIC who was eval. me and he agreed that they were balks.

Unless you are playing FED rules (doubtful), your understanding is incorrect.

They may have been balks, but they were balks for feinting, not for turning the shoulders.

Or, the UIC may want balks called not in accordance with published rules (e.g., "house" rules).

[GarthB]

CDcoach:

It is my understanding that if the pitcher is set he may not turn his shoulders to look towards a BR. Talked to UIC who was eval. me and he agreed that they were balks.


Read OBR Rule 8.05 and then show me the rule on shoulder turns. We'll talk when you finish your assignment.

[CDcoach]

Ok you are correct. Thank you for the correction.

Now for a question.

What exactly is a feint? Meaning that he turned his shoulder in a fake to get the runner to go back?

I stand corrected...learned something new. The shoulder turning was pretty jerky or I didn't call it. Correct?

[GarthB]

A feint is a "fake"...a move that isn't...a deceptive move, sometimes legal and sometimes not.

One can fake a number or ways, one of which that we have traditionally banned is an intentionally quick or abrupt or "jerking" turn of the shoulder towards first.

If the shoulder turns slowly and deliberately as the pitcher glances over, I've got nothing. If it gives the impression that it was the beginning of a move that didn't happen...it's a feint and a balk.