Hiding numbers with tape

[BigT]

I can't seem to find this one in the rule book or case book.

Varsity game two #13's. White uniform with blue numbers. One has tape making her a 3 instead of her 13. Is there a clear rule about this?

Or does the tape have to be exposing she is a 13 before the possible penalty?

Thanks in advance,

[SC Official]

I'm allowing it since there is no rule that does not allow it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I'm allowing it since there is no rule that does not allow it.

Actually there is. The number must be centered both vertically and horizontally on a player’s jersey according to 3-4-3b.
Therefore, if the 1 in a 13 printed on a shirt is covered with tape, the remaining 3 will not be centered as required by rule.

You or other officials can certainly choose to allow this fix and look the other way, but stating that there isn’t a rule preventing it is untrue.

[BigT]

I KNEW IT!

Thanks

[Nevadaref]

I will also point out that compliance with the NFHS rules can be maintained and the team member with the taped jersey can legally play simply by charging a technical foul to the head coach for allowing a player to participate with an illegal jersey. Not a big deal to some coaches and officials, but others consider that penalty a major issue.

[bob jenkins]

Let it go at lower levels; enforce it at Varsity.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I will also point out that compliance with the NFHS rules can be maintained and the team member with the taped jersey can legally play simply by charging a technical foul to the head coach for allowing a player to participate with an illegal jersey.

I was under the impression that while this is the case for an illegal number, i.e. #6 (Bill Russell, my favorite player), it is not the case for identical numbers, which by rule can never be allowed in a game (or a scorebook).

Wait, I now see what Nevadaref is saying, the non-centered taped number, not the identical number, makes the jersey illegal, but is allowed with a direct technical foul and a nice comfortable chair to sit in for the head coach.

Nice citation Nevadaref.

Also, as long as the tape stays on, they're both playing in my high school game without penalty (intent and purpose).

3.2.2 SITUATION B: Three minutes before the game starts, it is discovered: (a) two Team B members have wrong numbers in the scorebook; or (b) two Team B team members are wearing the same number. RULING: In (a), if either or both team member’s number is changed in the scorebook, one technical foul is charged to Team B. If there is no request for change or if neither becomes a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty. In (b), a technical foul is charged to Team B upon discovery of the identical numbers. Only one team member may wear a given number; the other must change to a number not already in use before participating. (10-1-2)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not a big deal to some coaches ... but others consider that penalty a major issue.

Back when I was working Catholic middle school games, my assigner wanted illegal number rules enforced (all uniform and equipment rules were enforced; he claimed that if he discovered that we didn't enforce these "Fashion Rules" that we wouldn't get paid). Spotted a #6 in pregame layup lines. Told the head coach his player could play at his expense of a direct technical foul and a seatbelt for the game. Instead he spent several minutes in a dusty, dark, dirty physical education storeroom rummaging through boxes looking for a jersey with legal number, eventually finding a jersey that was legal, but was way, way too big for the player.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I will also point out that compliance with the NFHS rules can be maintained and the team member with the taped jersey can legally play simply by charging a technical foul to the head coach for allowing a player to participate with an illegal jersey. Not a big deal to some coaches and officials, but others consider that penalty a major issue.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually there is. The number must be centered both vertically and horizontally on a player’s jersey according to 3-4-3b.
Therefore, if the 1 in a 13 printed on a shirt is covered with tape, the remaining 3 will not be centered as required by rule.

You or other officials can certainly choose to allow this fix and look the other way, but stating that there isn’t a rule preventing it is untrue.

This may be a check your local listing thing as well. For example, the CYO league I officiate for has a rule that specifically states that illegal and duplicate numbers can be made legal with tape. I've only had this happen once when a team combined its two 5th grade teams and had to resolve two sets of duplicate numbers. In such a case, I would not penalize for an uncentered number because the spirit of the rule (original number centered but temporarily altered to not be a duplicate) has been met even if the alteration means the letter of the rule has not.

Even absent the aforementioned rule, I'd agree with BillyMac and his citation of case 3.3.7. To allow a coach to alter a duplicate/illegal number with tape and then hit that coach with a direct T for the subsequently corrected yet uncentered number seems like a gotcha and contrary to the spirit of the rule.

This is also a situation where officials need to know the difference in the penalties for a duplicate number (administrative team technical per FED 10-1-2-e) and an illegal number/uniform (direct technical on the head coach per FED 10-6-4).

[Nevadaref]

The original question was for a HS varsity contest. That is what my answers reflect.

I don’t care what a local 5th grade CYO game does or doesn’t do.

[JRutledge]

There are certain schools there is almost no way I am penalizing for this as some have suggested. There are other schools I would be more strict about. Honestly, it is the reason why this even takes place which is ultimately the way I will handle it.

That being said, I would go by the people that you work for as the standard for these things, not go by what just the rule says. Some states like my state has even stated they do not want technical fouls for uniform things and the goal is to view the number. Someone would have to penalize me for not applying the rule here, but I am not going out of my way to show I know the rule. Do what you wish where you live, I know what I am doing and not doing.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

This is also a situation where officials need to know the difference in the penalties for a duplicate number (administrative team technical per FED 10-1-2-e) and an illegal number/uniform (direct technical on the head coach per FED 10-6-4).

Good point.

10-1-2-E: A team must not: After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1: Have identical numbers on team members and/or players. Penalized when discovered. Head coach does not lose the privilege of the coaching box.

After identical numbers are discovered, and after the team technical foul is charged, I don't believe that the identical numbers are allowed to play, one player must change, or not play.

3.2.2 SITUATION B: Three minutes before the game starts, it is discovered: (b) two Team B team members are wearing the same number. RULING: In (b), a technical foul is charged to Team B upon discovery of the identical numbers. Only one team member may wear a given number; the other must change to a number not already in use before participating. (10-1-2)

10-6-4: The head coach must not permit a team member to participate while wearing an illegal uniform. Penalized when discovered. Only one technical foul is charged regardless of the number of offenders.

I believe that after the head coach is charged with a technical foul and sits down, a player with an illegal number may continue to participate with no further penalty.

Question for old timers. Who are these two guys?

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Question for old timers. Who are these two guys?

Tom & Dick! or Dick & Tom! Van Arsdale!

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually there is. The number must be centered both vertically and horizontally on a player’s jersey according to 3-4-3b.
Therefore, if the 1 in a 13 printed on a shirt is covered with tape, the remaining 3 will not be centered as required by rule.

You or other officials can certainly choose to allow this fix and look the other way, but stating that there isn’t a rule preventing it is untrue.

That rule is for manufacturers. NFHS has made clear that the spirit and intent of the uniform rules is to allow participants to play whenever possible. This is explicitly stated in the Case Book at least once.

You can certainly choose to be a "gotcha" ref and start the game off with a direct T on the head coach. I don't think anyone would be surprised.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

You can certainly choose to be a "gotcha" ref and start the game off with a direct T on the head coach.

I've never met him, nor have I ever observed him officiate a basketball game, but after reading Nevadaref's posts on the Forum for many years, I do not believe him to be a "gotcha" referee in a real live game.

He is, however, the "King of Citations", and I value his rules and casebook knowledge, and would have no problem asking his advice on a written exam.