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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 05, 2020, 03:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
4-15-5: . An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after -
deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the
dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble.


So you decided that the dribble was not interrupted, even in a generic sense (which may have included a momentarily loss of player control), by the opponent's deflection.

So no loss of "control", even in a generic sense.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.


You were there, I wasn't, I could certainly live with your interpretation, but I might have ruled a legal play.

But hey, you probably get paid bigger bucks than me, I've been working middle school games (chronic injury) for the past two seasons.

Who am I to judge (apologies to Pope Francis).



Sleep well my friend.

This particular game was a middle school tourney.

Where I'm not sure: Is that split second touch by the defender that forces the ball into two hands of the dribbler considered "loss of control" or "interrupted dribble"??? I'm not entirely sure and was looking for other opinions on the matter. I'd like to get the call right in a HS game.

The loss of control or interrupted dribble in this context would certainly be in the hundredths of a second range. Is the simple act of the the defender touching the ball enough to allow the dribbler to grab the ball with two hands after they were already dribbling and to start the dribble again?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 05, 2020, 03:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WI_Ref View Post
This particular game was a middle school tourney.

Where I'm not sure: Is that split second touch by the defender that forces the ball into two hands of the dribbler considered "loss of control" or "interrupted dribble"??? I'm not entirely sure and was looking for other opinions on the matter. I'd like to get the call right in a HS game.

The loss of control or interrupted dribble in this context would certainly be in the hundredths of a second range. Is the simple act of the the defender touching the ball enough to allow the dribbler to grab the ball with two hands after they were already dribbling and to start the dribble again?
Give the deflection signal. It will satisfy anyone wondering about an illegal dribble.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 05, 2020, 04:27pm
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Fraction Of A Second ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WI_Ref View Post
The loss of control or interrupted dribble in this context would certainly be in the hundredths of a second range. Is the simple act of the the defender touching the ball enough to allow the dribbler to grab the ball with two hands after they were already dribbling and to start the dribble again?
Did the dribbler lose control because of a touch by an opponent, even for a fraction of a second?

If not, illegal dribble.

If so, legal play.

I'm not even sure if "control" in this rule means "player control" (as defined by NFHS rules), or is just a generic "lose control" as defined by Funk and Wagnalls?

9-5 has the word "player" and "control" separated by twenty-one words.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 06, 2020 at 11:05am.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 07, 2020, 12:30pm
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In situations like this, is a player entitled to get a binding answer to, "Sir, may I dribble?"
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 07, 2020, 04:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
In situations like this, is a player entitled to get a binding answer to, "Sir, may I dribble?"
In my middle school games, I've often wanted to tell a player in such odd situations (with no question asked) as they stand there like a deer in the headlights, "You can dribble", or, "Don't dribble".

I've resisted the urge, but I've come close.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 09, 2020 at 10:13am.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 08, 2020, 10:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
In my middle school games, I've often wanted to tell a player in such odd situations, as they stand there like a deer in the headlights, "You can dribble", or, "Don't dribble".

I've resisted the urge, but I've come close.
But I mean in response to a direct question. Not whether they should, but whether it's legal, since as we've seen here the answer doesn't always come easy.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 08, 2020, 11:36am
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It Is What It Is ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
In situations like this, is a player entitled to get a binding answer to, "Sir, may I dribble?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
But I mean in response to a direct question. Not whether they should, but whether it's legal, since as we've seen here the answer doesn't always come easy.
The official's answer (right or wrong) is what it is. No official is going to overrule himself, nor is an official going to lie to a child.



A few times every season, even in varsity games, a player will ask me (before I get a chance to tell him), "Can I run the endline?", and I always answer truthfully.

And I don't believe that this is a form of coaching.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 08, 2020 at 01:01pm.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 08, 2020, 03:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
...

A few times every season, even in varsity games, a player will ask me (before I get a chance to tell him), "Can I run the endline?", and I always answer truthfully.

And I don't believe that this is a form of coaching.
Why would you not? Not only is it common sense, but signals #7 & #8 from the Manual tell us to do so.

There is also 4.2.2.C.6 from the Manual.

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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 08, 2020, 06:19pm
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Proactive ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
A few times every season, even in varsity games, a player will ask me (before I get a chance to tell him), "Can I run the endline?", and I always answer truthfully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Why would you not? Not only is it common sense, but signals #7 & #8 from the Manual tell us to do so. There is also 4.2.2.C.6 from the Manual.
The point that I was making is that officials can, and do, often answer player's questions.

Player on lane before free throw, "How many shots?".

Player behind three point arc before free throw is at disposal, "Can I get on the lane (to fill open spot)?".

I don't see any reason why an official couldn't, or shouldn't, answer the question, "Sir, may I dribble?".

I always signal and state, "Designated spot"; or signal and state, "Run the endline"; on every backcourt endline throwin to be proactive and "by the book".

In my example I was describing a player who himself was being proactive, and asked, "Can I run the endline?", before I signaled and stated such.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 09, 2020 at 10:12am.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 09, 2020, 10:17am
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To Sir, With Love (1967) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
In situations like this, is a player entitled to get a binding answer to, "Sir, may I dribble?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Why would you not?
Officials should answer the question.

Even if one is a female official.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 09, 2020 at 12:54pm.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 29, 2020, 02:10pm
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tips the ball on the dribble

A dribbles down the court and is confronted by B but no contact just in defensive position. During his dribble, A then tips the ball over the head of B further down the court and retrieves the ball and continues his dribble down the court without picking up the ball.
Is this legal?
Thx
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 29, 2020, 02:25pm
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In Over His Head ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcowboy View Post
A dribbles down the court and is confronted by B but no contact just in defensive position. During his dribble, A then tips the ball over the head of B further down the court and retrieves the ball and continues his dribble down the court without picking up the ball.
Is this legal?
4.15.4 SITUATION D: While dribbling: (a) A1 bats the ball over the head of an opponent, runs around the opponent, bats the ball to the floor and continues to dribble; (b) the ball bounces away but A1 is able to get to it and continues to dribble; (c) the ball hits A1’s foot and bounces away but A1 is able to overtake and pick it up; or (d) A1 fumbles the ball in ending the dribble so that A1 must run to recover it. RULING: Violation in (a), because the ball was touched twice by A1’s hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor. In (b), even though the dribble was interrupted it has not ended and A1 may continue the dribble. In (c), the dribble ended when A1 caught the ball; and it ended in (d) when it was fumbled. Even though the dribble has ended in (c) and (d), A1 may recover the ball but may not dribble again. (9-5)
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 29, 2020, 02:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcowboy View Post
A dribbles down the court and is confronted by B but no contact just in defensive position. During his dribble, A then tips the ball over the head of B further down the court and retrieves the ball and continues his dribble down the court without picking up the ball.
Is this legal?
Thx
If the ball hits the court between this and this AND if this does not meet any of the criteria for ending a dribble, then the play is legal.
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