The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:20am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,220
Stupid Middle School Coach ...

Blue 1 attempts a layup (in the act) with two minutes left in a tie game. White 1 (with a linebacker build) slams into Blue 1 while attempting to prevent the shot. Ball doesn't go in, Blue 1 crashes to the floor and rolls over.

I'm the lead and immediately come up with the intentional foul signal (crossed arms) and add our local excessive contact signal (arms and fists down to side) and verbalize such. I report the foul to the table with the same signals and verbiage, and back away to the trail opposite table to help administer.

White coach yells that it isn't an intentional foul. I walk across the court to calmly explain to him that since there was excessive contact, by rule, it was an intentional foul. He continues to complain that it wasn't an intentional foul. I ask him, "Was there excessive contact?", he replies that there was. I tell him that excessive contact, by rule, is an intentional foul. He says, "That's wrong". I tell him, "That's enough coach", and back away to my position to help administer.

Before first free throw is attempted he yells across the court "That's still wrong". Technical foul (no written warning).

Almost made it through the entire season without charging a technical foul to a coach (not even a written warning), or a player.

Stupid middle school coach. He wasn't arguing about the excessiveness of the contact (he actually agreed with me that it was excessive), he was arguing a rule interpretation, and one doesn't do that with BillyMac by yelling across a crowded gym, especially after I took the time to calmly explain it to him.

Stupid middle school coach.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 14, 2020 at 01:46pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Mid Ohio Valley
Posts: 10
Mine is that earlier in the week while reporting a foul the assistant is complaining and trying to talk to me for several seconds, to the point I told him he needed to stop. At that point he informed me that he was a coach and could say what he wanted and that if he wanted to he was allowed to stand up and coach, why he said that I don't know as I didn't bring up standing in the box. I politely inform him he is the assistant coach and that he was not allowed to stand and that I didn't want to hear anything else from him the rest of the night, his response was he would do what he wanted. That is when I looked at the head coach and told him if he wanted to continue to be able to stand and have his box he better get his assistant under control - luckily I never heard another word, haha!

I can tell its getting late in the season, my tolerance level isn't as much as it used to be, lol. Knock on wood -- still haven't had one(T) this year!!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:53am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,220
Famous Last Words ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVBlue View Post
... still haven't had one(T) this year!!
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:19am
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,247
Not one all year? Hell, I had three in one game (one player, one assistant coach, one player-who-just-fouled-out-and-was-now-bench-personnel). Probably should've had 2-3 more in that game too.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:52am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,220
On The Long Ride Home ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Probably should've had 2-3 more in that game too.
Officials often regret the technical fouls that we didn't call, not the technical fouls that we did call.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 14, 2020 at 11:55am.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
.

White coach yells that it isn't an intentional foul. I walk across the court to calmly explain to him that since there was excessive contact, by rule, it was an intentional foul. He continues to complain that it wasn't an intentional foul. I ask him, "Was there excessive contact?", he replies that there was. I tell him that excessive contact, by rule, is an intentional foul. He says, "That's wrong". I tell him, "That's enough coach", and back away to my position to help administer.

And that is why I feel HS should change the name to match what the NCAA rules do....flagrant 1 and flagrant 2.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:44pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,220
Excessive Contact Foul ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
And that is why I feel HS should change the name to match what the NCAA rules do....flagrant 1 and flagrant 2.
Perhaps.

Or how about making an NFHS excessive contact intentional foul a separate foul, just called an excessive contact foul, with it's own signal (maybe downward thrusting fists to side), and not a type of intentional foul. It would have the same penalty as a excessive contact intentional foul (two shots by player fouled and the ball at closest spot to the foul).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 14, 2020 at 01:47pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:27pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Perhaps.

Or how about making an NFHS excessive contact intentional foul a separate foul, just called an excessive contact foul, with it's own signal (maybe downward thrusting fists to side), and not a type of intentional foul. It would have the same penalty as a excessive contact intentional foul (two shots by player fouled and the ball at closest spot to the foul).
We do not need a different foul for every possible action. It is just bad wording and needs to be changed. Coaches will still screw it up, but they will not at least have the name of the foul, thinking that that means the specific action must be intentional.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,509
I don’t do too many MS games, maybe 2 or 4 per month, but had a set last night. Whacked a coach in the second quarter when, after having given him more intelligent conversation time regarding an act-of-shooting decision than most officials would, he still couldn’t resist walking away and slapping his hands loudly in frustration above his head. Just wouldn’t let it go.

It was the difference between a 1-and-1 and 2 shots in the second quarter. Strange hill he chose to die on. Especially in a game that already had 45 fouls in 24 minutes.

Stupid middle school coaches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:55pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,220
Separation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
We do not need a different foul for every possible action.
To prevent arguments like this (certainly not the first such argument of my career) the NFHS probably needs to somehow separate excessive contact intentional fouls from other "garden variety" intentional fouls to do away with the "but he was going for the ball" statement often stated by coaches, and completely take away the intentional foul signal and any "intentional foul" verbiage for such illegal excessive contact.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 19, 2020 at 11:46am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 03:27pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
To prevent arguments like this (certaibnly not the first such argument of my career) the NFHS probably needs to somehow separate excessive contact intentional fouls from other "garden variety" intentional fouls to do away with the "but he was going for the ball" statement often stated by coaches, and completely take away the intentional foul signal and any "intentional foul" verbiage for such illegal excessive contact.
I don't argue with coaches about rules. I tell them the rule and move on.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 03:38pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE PA
Posts: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
"but he was going for the ball"
Nothing will prevent arguments based on ignorance. Ignore, laugh or apply Raymond's approach. Or T.

Last edited by LRZ; Sat Feb 15, 2020 at 07:37am.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:51pm
Statistician/Ref Hybrid
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 997
This fall I had a MS girls game where B1 used excessive contact on a girl driving to the basket. Coach B couldn't understand why I called an intentional foul, even with the explanation it was for excessive contact. His reaction was because he also officiates and is the president of our officials association.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Before first free throw is attempted he yells across the court "That's still wrong". Technical foul (no written warning).
I had a JV coach earlier this season want to argue a double dribble call. He somehow figured it was a hill worth dying on when he decided to end his argument with, "Go read a rule book!"

I showed him with a technical foul that I've read Rule 10-5-1 .
__________________
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." – Dalai Lama

The center of attention as the lead & trail. – me
Games officiated: 450 Basketball · 73 Softball · 16 Baseball

Last edited by Stat-Man; Sat Feb 15, 2020 at 12:23am. Reason: Remove extraneous word
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:26pm
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,545
I'm at 16 techs through 71 games. Still left a couple out there too, those are the ones which bother me.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 15, 2020, 11:43am
I got a Basketball Jones!
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hunger
Posts: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I'm at 16 techs through 71 games. Still left a couple out there too, those are the ones which bother me.
Hell, I'm still brooding over one I should have served in my last game, over 5 years ago.

Luckily I can still bask in the vicarious glow when my progeny pull the trigger themselves. I've just got to hear the details, then I feel better for a while.

Moral of this story:

Serve "T" early and often (when justified). You'll never know when its your last chance and you're left unfulfilled the rest of your life.
__________________
Lah me..
(In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Middle school mayhem The R Basketball 4 Wed Nov 25, 2009 03:53pm
Only in Middle School Ball DTQ_Blue Softball 4 Sun May 24, 2009 12:09am
Why I still do middle school basketball Adam Basketball 13 Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:05am
Middle School Coach Ejection RookieDude Basketball 29 Fri Dec 09, 2005 07:25am
Only in Middle School Stat-Man Basketball 24 Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:51pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1