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-   -   Notre Dame/Florida State video request (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104957-notre-dame-florida-state-video-request.html)

Raymond Sat Feb 01, 2020 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1037285)
Has the official in question? Suppressing coach speech to improve the perception of the state of officiating is a dangerous game. ...

Have you ever considered that conferences, which are run by conference commissioners at the behest of the schools' presidents, have rules regarding the media which their coaches are expected to follow?

So even if an official gets a judgement call wrong, the coach is probably not allowed to go to the media and blast that official by name.

Have you also considered that there are protocols in place for coaches to follow when they want to address an officiating issue?

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crosscountry55 Sat Feb 01, 2020 08:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037288)
Have you also considered that there are protocols in place for coaches to follow when they want to address an officiating issue?


Iím assuming he has also failed to consider (or doesnít know) that NCAA officials are evaluated on all games at every level.

The fact that actions have consequences cuts both ways.



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JRutledge Sat Feb 01, 2020 09:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1037286)
I abso-f******-lutely hate the stupid "don't compound a missed call with a technical foul" nonsense.

Sorry, but coaches and players don't get to do whatever they want just because they may have a legitimate beef.

The official in question probably does not think they got the play wrong. So that is stupid when I hear what we are to allow certain behavior when you have not seen the video.

Peace

crosscountry55 Sat Feb 01, 2020 09:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1037293)
The official in question probably does not think they got the play wrong. So that is stupid when I hear what we are to allow certain behavior when you have not seen the video.


I agree. But even if we do think we got the play wrong (weíre not robots, after all), a certain level of decorum must be maintained. Iíll give a coach or player a little extra rope in that scenario, but when the toddler temper tantrum or a magic word or two are unleashed, I have to address it.



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JRutledge Sat Feb 01, 2020 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1037294)
I agree. But even if we do think we got the play wrong (weíre not robots, after all), a certain level of decorum must be maintained. Iíll give a coach or player a little extra rope in that scenario, but when the toddler temper tantrum or a magic word or two are unleashed, I have to address it.

And we do not know what was said and by whom. It appeared to be an assistant coach and those guys get very little rope to react anyway.

Peace

SC Official Sun Feb 02, 2020 02:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1037293)
The official in question probably does not think they got the play wrong. So that is stupid when I hear what we are to allow certain behavior when you have not seen the video.

Peace

A good point I forgot to include. If he did not believe he missed the call then it's not possible for him to "compound" his mistake, if you buy into that phony line of thinking.

I have had many plays that I thought I got right in real time only to watch the film and realize I was incorrect. Some of those decisions preceded a well-deserved technical foul, but that doesn't mean I "compounded" my mistake that I didn't even know I made at the time.

SC Official Sun Feb 02, 2020 03:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1037292)
Iím assuming he has also failed to consider (or doesnít know) that NCAA officials are evaluated on all games at every level.

The fact that actions have consequences cuts both ways.



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Maybe in Division 1, but at the D2 and D3 you aren't getting an eval every night. Still, even at those levels there aren't any conferences that will allow coaches to do what Brey did without some type of repercussion. And there is good reason for that on top of the fact that there are procedures in place for coaches to voice their displeasure internally.

JRutledge Sun Feb 02, 2020 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1037305)
Maybe in Division 1, but at the D2 and D3 you aren't getting an eval every night. Still, even at those levels there aren't any conferences that will allow coaches to do what Brey did without some type of repercussion. And there is good reason for that on top of the fact that there are procedures in place for coaches to voice their displeasure internally.

It has become common that you are getting videos at those levels. I get more college game videos than I ever got working high school games. So the evaluation is increasing, but certainly not what D1 guys can get. But I can look at my plays at that level and figure out what I screwed up (if the angle is good).

Peace

youngump Sun Feb 02, 2020 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037288)
Have you ever considered that conferences, which are run by conference commissioners at the behest of the schools' presidents, have rules regarding the media which their coaches are expected to follow?

So even if an official gets a judgement call wrong, the coach is probably not allowed to go to the media and blast that official by name.

Have you also considered that there are protocols in place for coaches to follow when they want to address an officiating issue?

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Did you read my post? I've not only considered that; I was stating rather explicitly my objection to such policies.

youngump Sun Feb 02, 2020 08:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1037292)
Iím assuming he has also failed to consider (or doesnít know) that NCAA officials are evaluated on all games at every level.

The fact that actions have consequences cuts both ways.



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Why would you make that assumption? I've definitely considered how that affects it and still think the benefits of an enforced silence policy(*) are outweighed by it's cost.

(*) Or an enforced dishonesty policy as the case may be.

Raymond Sun Feb 02, 2020 08:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1037308)
Did you read my post? I've not only considered that; I was stating rather explicitly my objection to such policies.

Well, apparently the folks who run the college conferences across the country have different expectations and standards in regards to its coaches. I'm glad they do.

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youngump Sun Feb 02, 2020 09:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1037304)
A good point I forgot to include. If he did not believe he missed the call then it's not possible for him to "compound" his mistake, if you buy into that phony line of thinking.

I have had many plays that I thought I got right in real time only to watch the film and realize I was incorrect. Some of those decisions preceded a well-deserved technical foul, but that doesn't mean I "compounded" my mistake that I didn't even know I made at the time.

You're conflating the notion of whether you made a second mistake with whether your mistake was compounded. If you miss a foul call, the mistake is compounded if that player is in foul trouble. That doesn't mean you made a worse mistake.
If the technical that follows is obvious, then that's one thing. If it's borderline and you weren't sure that's another.

(In another sport, I've thrown a coach where I was quite sure I was wrong but couldn't fix it. That definitely compounded my mistake but throwing him wasn't a mistake as he took that choice out of my hands.)

youngump Sun Feb 02, 2020 09:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037310)
Well, apparently the folks who run the college conferences across the country have different expectations and standards in regards to its coaches. I'm glad they do.

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And I'm not glad because I think the benefits are outweighed by the costs.

Raymond Sun Feb 02, 2020 09:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1037287)
...the point remains that in this case this call WAS compounded by a technical.

So at that moment, the official knew he got the play wrong and should have tolerated inappropriate comments or behavior from the bench personnel?



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Raymond Sun Feb 02, 2020 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1037312)
And I'm not glad because I think the benefits are outweighed by the costs.

Maybe one day you'll be in a position to affect that change. But I'm thinking scholastic administrators just simply don't want their coaches bad-mouthing officials in the press.

I guess you're also in favor of officials publicly commenting about coaches and institutions by name?

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