rule question
Team A in the back court rolls the ball in bounds. Player A2 bats the ball forward 4-5 times--- Clock starts at the first bat ball. The question for me is are the bat balls legal or illegal? Our interpreter said he thought it was illegal, but would seek further clarification. If it is illegal? what is the call...
Is it a dribble? Interested in what folks think stew in Va thanks in advance |
A dribble involves pushing or batting the ball to the floor.
If the ball is rolling on the floor, batting it does not meet the definition of a dribble. |
I’m just trying to picture this in my mind to see if any of the actions as described appear to be illegal. I don’t see anything that would prevent that. Play on.
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Case: The ball rolls near A1. A1 begins pushing the ball, with one hand, along the floor all over the court and finally picks the ball up. A1 then begins dribbling. Ruling? Does it matter if the ball was pushed with two hands?
Case: A1 is dribbling ball and then picks up his dribble. A1 then places the ball on the floor and ceases to have contact with the ball. A1 then picks up the ball. Ruling? Case: A1 is dribbling ball and then picks up his dribble. A1 then places the ball on the floor and ceases to have contact with the ball. A1 then pushes the ball along the floor for 10 feet and then A2 picks the ball up. Ruling? Case: A1 is dribbling ball and then picks up his dribble. A1 then places the ball on the floor and ceases to have contact with the ball. A1 then pushes the ball along the floor for 10 feet. A1 picks up the ball. Ruling? |
It Can Happen ...
I had something similar happen to me in a Catholic middle school game fifteen years ago (remember it like it was yesterday). "Ball handler" was batting the ball around on the floor (I can't remember if it was after his dribble had ended) and seemed to gain an advantage in a crowd of opponents, so I sounded my whistle and ruled a travel (or maybe an illegal dribble).
I discussed this with my partner after the game and she convinced me that I was incorrect in my ruling (should have been no call). I spent a long time in the rulebook and casebook (and may have brought it to the Forum) and decided that she was correct, there was no violation. If you can fumble the ball around trying to catch pass and move several feet without a violation, why can't one do the same with a ball on the floor? |
I'd say you're stepped into an area not covered in the rules.
It partially meets the concept of dribbling, but it doesn't quite meet the literal definition...so does that make it an illegal dribble??? If it is a controlled action, I'm going to invoke 2-3 and treat it like a dribble. It is close enough in purpose and principle. |
You've Stepped Into The Twilight Zone ...
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But are you sure it's a duck? It looks just like a dribble, but a dribble in only two dimensions, just left and right, forward and back, no up and down. https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.f...=0&w=415&h=196 |
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Seems like a no call however, theoretically, one could easily gain an advantage by such actions. |
Player control is defined as holding or dribbling the ball.
This action is neither of those. Therefore, we do not have a player in control of the ball. This player may bat the ball along the floor as much as desired. It is up to an opponent to come put a stop to it. All this constitutes is a player batting a loose ball. |
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I am anxious to try it the next time I play some pick-up ball. The debate/argument that ensues will surely be great entertainment. |
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thanks all stew in VA |
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No Call ...
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But with all that, the correct call is still a no call. In this situation, the ball "handler" is not holding the ball. In this situation, by rule, the ball "handler" is not dribbling the ball. By rule, not a travel. By rule, not an illegal dribble. By rule, nothing illegal. The coaches and fans can complain until the cows come home (I work a lot of games in rural areas, with John Deere tractors in the school parking lots), the correct call is a no call and play on. Confucius says, "If it's not illegal, it's legal". |
I've got nothing here....albeit it's really odd and probably going to get some questions from the defensive team coach and their all-knowing fans :D
While yes, it is "controlled" by the "ball handler" as a deliberate action...I can't say it's an illegal dribble (he hasn't dribbled) ..and we haven't established a pivot foot to meet the requirements for a travel violation... |
I can think of one realistic version of this scenario:
A1 chases down an interrupted dribble with the ball now rolling slowly on the floor. Right before B1 gets to the ball, A1 bats it to cause it to roll away from B1, then bats it again to cause it to roll away from B2, then A1 chases the ball down and picks it up. |
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