The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 09, 2019, 04:49pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
And We Complain About Being Fashion Police!

I missed this game in the Pan-American games and while I have not been a USA Basketball Referee since 2005, I still stay up on the FIBA Rules but I missed this Rule.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...form/39929525/

MTD, Sr.


P.S. This occurred before the start of the Argentina (Home) vs. Columbia (Visitor) game.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:59pm. Reason: Added P.S.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 09, 2019, 05:47pm
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 994
I am sure the 5 people at the game and the 3 people hoping to watch on tv were devastated.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 09, 2019, 08:47pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I don’t understand why a team of that calibre would somehow not have their alternate jerseys with them at all times. It can’t be that much of a space concern.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 09, 2019, 09:31pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I don’t understand why a team of that calibre would somehow not have their alternate jerseys with them at all times. It can’t be that much of a space concern.


I agree with you 100%.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 10, 2019, 09:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,013
A facility like that and there were not any other white jerseys? There needs to be a review of accommodations as far as the rule is concerned. That's one thing about NFHS, find some garbage shirt left in the local locker room to use as spirit of the game precludes anything else.
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 11, 2019, 03:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
A facility like that and there were not any other white jerseys? There needs to be a review of accommodations as far as the rule is concerned. That's one thing about NFHS, find some garbage shirt left in the local locker room to use as spirit of the game precludes anything else.
For NFHS, the team wouldn’t forfeit. The coach would simply take a technical foul for allowing the illegal uniforms. Two FTs would be awarded and game would go on.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 11, 2019, 09:20am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
I've Got Ten Bucks That Says The Blue Team Wins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
For NFHS, the team wouldn’t forfeit. The coach would simply take a technical foul for allowing the illegal uniforms. Two FTs would be awarded and game would go on.
Good point Nevadaref.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 11, 2019, 09:03pm
Statistician/Ref Hybrid
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1,037
For anyone that can't view the original link for any reason, here is an archive copy:

Pan American Games: Argentina wears wrong uniform, forfeits game

I can see how this rule might work for elite/pro teams that play under FIBA rules, but I'm trying to figure out why Argentina didn't have their white uniforms with them . Most teams I've known tell their players to always have both sets of uniforms just in case.
__________________
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." – Dalai Lama

The center of attention as the lead & trail. – me
Games officiated: 525 Basketball · 76 Softball · 16 Baseball
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 12, 2019, 12:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
For NFHS, the team wouldn’t forfeit. The coach would simply take a technical foul for allowing the illegal uniforms. Two FTs would be awarded and game would go on.
That is the case whereby jersey colors are different enough. In the case of 2 teams having the same colored jerseys, I disagree. (wasn't that what happened in OP? I wasn't gonna wait for the page to reload again with all the ads). The intent of contrasting jerseys is to distinguish opponents. Without that ability, how could the game be officiated? Ergo, we have BM's remark. With hope, the home team could scramble to switch jerseys. Surely they would have pinnies, etc.
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 10:20am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
The Show Must Go On ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
That is the case whereby jersey colors are different enough. In the case of 2 teams having the same colored jerseys ... The intent of contrasting jerseys is to distinguish opponents. Without that ability, how could the game be officiated?
NFHS high school game. No rule that says it's a forfeit. As Nevadaref pointed out, the coach would simply take the technical foul for the illegal uniforms. Two FTs would be awarded.

After that, we'd figure it out.

Home team gets their reversible practice jerseys from the locker room. Maybe different color numbers on the jerseys (I've worked Catholic middle school games like this, both dark blue jerseys, one team white numbers, other team gold numbers, white versus gold). One team wears jersey inside out. Giant taped X's on jerseys of one team. Shirts versus skins. Players raise hands for fouls (like in ancient times).

Get the coaches, athletic director (site manager) together, possibly with my assignment commissioner on the phone, and we'd figure it out. Maybe it won't be perfect, but we'd figure it out enough for there to be a game that night.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 13, 2019 at 10:26am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 11:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
That is the case whereby jersey colors are different enough. In the case of 2 teams having the same colored jerseys, I disagree. .
What NFHS supports your disagreement? You have no basis for a forfeit.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 12:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You have no basis for a forfeit.
Agree. The penalty for illegal uniforms is spelled out in the book.

It may be difficult to officiate and, if there is a close OOB play where it is hard to tell which team hit it last, I just might default to the team that wore the correct jerseys, but it isn't going to be a forfeit.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 12:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,966
If two teams show up with the same color uniforms to my game and one team can’t find another color to wear, I won’t declare a forfeit, but I’m not officiating it, either. I’m leaving and letting the state decide what to do. Maybe that wouldn’t be acceptable in some areas, but here it would be.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 03:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
If two teams show up with the same color uniforms to my game and one team can’t find another color to wear, I won’t declare a forfeit, but I’m not officiating it, either. I’m leaving and letting the state decide what to do. Maybe that wouldn’t be acceptable in some areas, but here it would be.
This really isn't all that much different than illegal numbers, ruleswise.

Find a way to make it work....number colors, trim colors, something. It isn't ideal, but this doesn't rise to the level of not playing the game.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 04:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
This really isn't all that much different than illegal numbers, ruleswise.

Find a way to make it work....number colors, trim colors, something. It isn't ideal, but this doesn't rise to the level of not playing the game.
If it doesn't rise to that level in your area, fine.

I've officiated a game before where the home team wore white and the road team wore light gray. It was a mess; at halftime the home team decided to switch into their black uniforms they magically remembered were available.

We would not be expected to play here if the teams had indiscernible jerseys. But we wouldn't declare a forfeit, either.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fashion Police The_Rookie Basketball 13 Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:42am
fashion police bbman Basketball 4 Thu Oct 26, 2017 04:47pm
More fashion police CoachP Basketball 33 Tue Jan 10, 2012 05:12pm
Fashion police CoachP Basketball 11 Sun Jan 08, 2012 02:25pm
Fashion Police Zoochy Basketball 50 Tue Jan 09, 2007 08:12pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:51am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1