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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 06:05pm
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Fair Is Fair ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
... if there is a close OOB play where it is hard to tell which team hit it last, I just might default to the team that wore the correct jerseys ...
No. Ask for help, or go with a held ball. Rules is rules.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 13, 2019 at 06:14pm.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 06:13pm
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What's The Hurry To Leave ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
If two teams show up with the same color uniforms to my game and one team can’t find another color to wear, I won’t declare a forfeit, but I’m not officiating it, either. I’m leaving and letting the state decide what to do.
I get it. When in Rome …

But you would leave the site and let the state figure it out afterward?

How about getting the coaches together with the athletic director (site manager) and make a few phone calls before leaving the site?

Maybe get your assigner's opinion before leaving the site?

If nothing else, there's always the shirts versus skins option to consider.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 13, 2019 at 06:17pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 06:18pm
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A Canadian basketball officiating friend of told me of a women's college game that he had years and years ago (in the 1990s). I shall not name the Canadian college nor who its European opponent was. None the less, the Visitors had brought their White jerseys to the game site. The Home went and got its Dark jerseys for the Visitors to change into. Rather than go to the locker room to change jerseys, they changed court side. As they changed the air was sucked completely out of the gym because some of the players were not wearing bras, LOL!

MTD, Sr.
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Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 06:28pm
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No, He Wasn't Mike Pence ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
A Canadian basketball officiating friend of told me of a women's college game that he had years and years ago. I shall not name the Canadian college nor who its European opponent was. None the less, the Visitors had brought their White jerseys to the game site. The Home went and got its Dark jerseys for the Visitors to change into. Rather than go to the locker room to change jerseys, they changed court side. As they changed the air was sucked completely out of the gym because some of the players were not wearing bras ...
Back in my coaching days, I would coach at an overnight girls camp every summer.

Camp was run by a very successful old fashioned older male coach. Every time the girls would reverse their reversible camp jerseys on the court, exposing their sports bras, he would panic and turn away.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 14, 2019 at 11:16am.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 13, 2019, 11:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
If it doesn't rise to that level in your area, fine.

I've officiated a game before where the home team wore white and the road team wore light gray. It was a mess; at halftime the home team decided to switch into their black uniforms they magically remembered were available.

We would not be expected to play here if the teams had indiscernible jerseys. But we wouldn't declare a forfeit, either.
I've officiated such a game...white and light grey. It was tricky in a few situations, but it really wasn't that hard.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:06am
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
What NFHS supports your disagreement? You have no basis for a forfeit.
2-5-4: The referee: May declare the game a forfeit when conditions warrant.
3-1-1-Note: When there is only one player participating for a team, the
team shall forfeit the game, unless the referee believes that team has an
opportunity to win the game.
5-4-1: The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after
being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a
game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply
with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul
infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to
which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall
stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its
favor.
10-5-Penalty Note: Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.
10-6-Penalty Note: Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.

3.1.1 SITUATION: After six players have been disqualified, Team A has only four who are eligible to continue in the game as players. In a gesture of fair play, the coach of Team B indicates a desire to withdraw a player so that each team will have four players on the court. RULING: This is not permissible. Team B must have five players participating as long as it has that number available. If no substitute is available, a team must continue with fewer than five players. When only one player remains to participate, that team shall forfeit the game unless the referee believes this team still has an opportunity to win the game.

5.4.1 SITUATION A: A1 commits his/her fifth personal foul. Both the head coach and player are properly notified. Team A has substitutes available but the head coach from Team A does not send a substitute to the table within the 20-second time limit. The Team A head coach is assessed a technical foul. The head coach still does not send a substitute to the table. RULING: The official should forfeit the contest to the opposing team for the head coach delaying the contest and attempting to make a travesty of the game. COMMENT: The referee may forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical foul penalty.

5.4.1 SITUATION B: The covering official rules a double foul on the post player and opponent after both push and shove each other. It is the fifth foul on each player. Some spectators in the crowd react vocally in a negative manner while others throw paper cups, etc., on the floor. The entire crowd seems to be in a hostile mood. What should the officials do? RULING: The officials must ask game -management or home management to control the spectators. The officials have authority to charge a technical foul(s) if it can be determined which team’s spectators are involved. However, much discretion is necessary in this case and the officials must be aware that a technical foul(s) on spectators usually leads to even more problems. COMMENT: The game should not be forfeited to either team because of the action of spectators. If game or home management cannot restore order by removal or other means, the officials are authorized to suspend play. The game would then be continued from the point of interruption, unless the teams agree to terminate the game with the existing score, or there are conference, league or state association rules which apply.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:13am
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
For NFHS, the team wouldn’t forfeit. The coach would simply take a technical foul for allowing the illegal uniforms. Two FTs would be awarded and game would go on.
3-4-1-C: The torso color shall be white for the home team and a contrasting
dark color for the visiting team.
10-6-4: The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate
while wearing an illegal uniform (see 3-4).

3.4.1 SITUATION A: The competing teams in a tournament setting enter the court for warm-ups both wearing dark jerseys. The tournament manager indicates that (a) Team A was aware of the home-team designation and failed to comply with wearing the required white jersey; (b) neither team was notified of the proper home/away designation. However, Team B has both sets of jerseys available. RULING: In (a), the Team A head coach receives a direct technical foul. The game starts with two free throws followed by a division line throw-in awarded to Team B and loss of the coaching box for the Team A head coach for the remainder of the game. In (b), Team B should be given ample time to change into its white uniforms. No penalties are assessed. (10-5-4)
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 12:15pm
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and the coach gets to take a seat during the game
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 04:47pm
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Kick Your Shoes Off (Olivia Newton-John, 1975) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
... and the coach gets to take a seat during the game
Good point. This is not a team technical foul, but a direct technical foul to the head coach, and of course, the head coach must sit after any technical foul, direct, or indirect, charged to the head coach.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 09:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
What NFHS supports your disagreement? You have no basis for a forfeit.
I did not indicate that they would forfeit. I disagreed with your sentiment that the coach would simply take a T and the game would continue. If there are 2 teams with same-colored jerseys, more will need to be done to continue. No one, and I mean no one, would just give T and then start the game. Then you and others go on to describe all kinds of changes to be made before continuing the game. Well, no kidding, then you do not have the original problem do you? one even suggested bending the rules to accommodate, lol. Follow the uniform rules to the letter as written but then not adjudicate accordingly because of it. That's a laugh.

And shirts and skins? Did someone really legitimately suggest that? Have fun with the lawsuit.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
I did not indicate that they would forfeit. I disagreed with your sentiment that the coach would simply take a T and the game would continue. If there are 2 teams with same-colored jerseys, more will need to be done to continue. No one, and I mean no one, would just give T and then start the game.
You must be rather new to this. Back in the day it was not totally uncommon to have teams show up with the same basic color uniforms when the rule was written slightly different. That was when the home team was to wear the "lighter" jersey which could be gold, grey or orange that was the home team. We would just play the games if there was something about the jerseys that were identifiably different. So this is how it used to be and to those of us that have been around some time, that was not and uncommon choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Then you and others go on to describe all kinds of changes to be made before continuing the game. Well, no kidding, then you do not have the original problem do you? one even suggested bending the rules to accommodate, lol. Follow the uniform rules to the letter as written but then not adjudicate accordingly because of it. That's a laugh.

And shirts and skins? Did someone really legitimately suggest that? Have fun with the lawsuit.
You do realize the shirts and skins comment was a joke? I for one get annoyed by Billy sometimes, but that was a joke. I even know that.

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
...No one, and I mean no one, would just give T and then start the game.
You'd be wrong about that. At one time, it wasn't even a T. We did just play the game with NO adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
...We would just play the games if there was something about the jerseys that were identifiably different. So this is how it used to be and to those of us that have been around some time, that was not and uncommon choice.
Exactly. It was quite unlikely that the number fonts or the trim thickness was going to be the same. There was always SOMETHING different....maybe it was V-neck vs Scoop-neck.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:25pm
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Shirts Versus Skins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You do realize the shirts and skins comment was a joke?
After you put the kids to bed, pull down the shades, and close the door, go on the Google and search images for "Shirts Versus Skins".

I discovered that shirts versus skins is not just a male phenomena.

I did not know that.

You may want to do this while the wife is at bingo.

And be sure to clear your search history afterward.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Aug 15, 2019 at 09:47am.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
You'd be wrong about that. At one time, it wasn't even a T. We did just play the game with NO adjustments.



Exactly. It was quite unlikely that the number fonts or the trim thickness was going to be the same. There was always SOMETHING different....maybe it was V-neck vs Scoop-neck.
Yea, I can hear it now as the ball goes out of bounds between two players...

"Blue....V-neck" and then moments later on another play.."Blue...scoop neck" or better yet "Blue...with helvetica font numbering" and "White...with thicker trim". In that case the game would be a travesty and it could....be forfeited, lol.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
You'd be wrong about that. At one time, it wasn't even a T. We did just play the game with NO adjustments.
I would be wrong about what? Even since the rule was made a T, there were situations when a T was given and we moved on. We did not forfeit or not play the game when the uniforms were problematic by rule. As a matter of fact I had a summer game where we jerseys that were very close in color and we played. We complained about it, but we played. I did not give a year all these situations took place.

Peace
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