The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:02pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,680
Old Plumbers Never Die, They Just Fade Away ... ...

With apologies to General Douglas MacArthur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
SITUATION 15: Team A has a player who is deaf. The coach requests that both a signer and head coach be allowed to occupy the optional coaching box in order to relay instructions to the affected player.
RULING: The school principal shall make a written request to the state high school association which shall include written verification from a physician confirming the condition. The state association, if it approves, will return a letter of approval and this letter shall be presented to the game officials prior to each contest.
Nice citation. Thanks.

Nevadaref? Why are you posting under Freddy's username?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 138
I'm guessing there's going to be an attorney that picks this up and uses that situational ruling by the NFHS to levy discrimination suit against them.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
I'm guessing there's going to be an attorney that picks this up and uses that situational ruling by the NFHS to levy discrimination suit against them.


Yup. Shame on all of us for not being sensitive to a 20-year old interp that hasn’t been publicly available since the turn of the century, and that was never published in the formal casebook to begin with, thereby ensuring that 90% of officials never read it.

Oh the humanity!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:30pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
I'm guessing there's going to be an attorney that picks this up and uses that situational ruling by the NFHS to levy discrimination suit against them.
Against whom? The NFHS? They have accommodations for deaf players based on this old interp. To me, the player's parents, coach, and school dropped the ball when they didn't submit the requisite paperwork with the state.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Fri Mar 01, 2019 at 09:23am.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,383
Coaching Box - Deaf Player's Interpreter Told No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Beyond that there are 2 groups of people upset.



1) Fans/followers who are in a twist because they got something one way all season long and then when someone tries to enforce a rule they get up in arms. Welcome to being a fan/follower.

What is it about playoff games that causes officials to make issues out of stuff they would likely ignore the previous three months?

(Rhetorical question. Don’t actually answer. We all know the answer.)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by crosscountry55; Thu Feb 28, 2019 at 04:49pm.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 623
Is it the fact that officials are actually being watched, for the possibility of advancing to the State Semifinals/Finals and want to show their rules knowledge (along with good mechanics and the other needed abilities)?

If I had this team's coach in the game, I would treat the interpreter as the head coach for the purposes of communication with the deaf player, and ask the head coach to file an accommodation letter with the state office, if he has not already done so. If the player (and his coach) present me with an accommodation letter from his state, I will honor it and relay the specifics to my partners.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 06:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,444
Unless the state office has given written permission for the interpreter to stand, she will be sitting on the bench and signing from there.
I don’t grasp how sign language is different when sitting or standing, so I don’t see any negative impact to the deaf player.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 06:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 756
As the nephew of a deaf couple I can say line of sight and clarity of purpose is important. It is easier if they can focus on speaker & signer instead of trying to distinguish the signer from a mass of bodies and movements and determine who's voice they are signing. The role of the interpreter is to sign any communication made by an individual towards the hearing impaired person

Just like the head coaches voice gets to be distinct than the other bench noise because of presence, proximity, ease of contact over when they are sitting, etc. I would assume that the desire or expectation would be to have the interpreter able to relay all those attributes in real time in as similar a way as possible. By physically being by the coach and relaying the message in real time with their lips it is also evident to the reciever who is speaking to them. There would be no need to say sign Head Coach tom says or Assistant Coach Paul says. If they are allowed to be proximate to the speaker.

When my aunt and uncle use an interpreter the expectation is that other persons don't speak to the interpreter and that interpreter doesn't speak "to" others. My aunt and uncle are supposed to be able to maintain eye contact/ line of sight with the person whom they are speaking while the interpreter in in the vision of the speaker and hearing distance of hearing capable person in the case where they are interpreting sign for them.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 08:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Without a directive from the NFHS or OHSAA I'm allowing the interpreter, unless for some reason safety is an issue.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Bryan: From the OHSAA Basketball Manual (OHSAA Website)

Authorizing rule exceptions to provide reasonable accommodations– Adopted in Ohio.
Comment: The NFHS allows reasonable accommodations to be made to individual participants with disabilities and/or
special needs, as well as those individuals with unique and extenuating circumstances. Please send a written request to
[email protected]. If the permission is granted, you will keep that to show officials prior to a contest.

In a similar issue several years ago, the OHSAA granted permission for a coach using sign language to stand.

Last edited by billyu2; Thu Feb 28, 2019 at 08:57pm.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 08:46pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
Bryan: From the OHSAA Basketball Regulations (OHSAA Website)



Authorizing rule exceptions to provide reasonable accommodations– Adopted in Ohio.

Comment: The NFHS allows reasonable accommodations to be made to individual participants with disabilities and/or

special needs, as well as those individuals with unique and extenuating circumstances. Please send a written request to

[email protected]. If the permission is granted, you will keep that to show officials prior to a contest.



In a similar issue several years ago, the OHSAA granted permission for a coach using sign language to stand.
Thanks. If I ran into this next season I probably would have screwed up.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2019, 10:02pm
Max Max is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
I talked with 2 of the 3 officials on the game and they were not told about the deaf player in the coaches meeting before the game. The school had not contacted the IHSAA about getting a waiver for the player to have an interpreter either. An assistant couch told one of the officials that they thought everyone knew about it. All 3 officials live 45-90 miles from this school. I love closer than that and I hadn't heard about it. The school's failure to properly get a waiver put the officials in a terribly awkward position. When this came up during game action the officials allowed the interpreter to stand just outside the box area when the player was in the game.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 08:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Unless the state office has given written permission for the interpreter to stand, she will be sitting on the bench and signing from there.
I don’t grasp how sign language is different when sitting or standing, so I don’t see any negative impact to the deaf player.
Because you haven't signed before. It's louder when you stand and can sign from a higher vantage point of course. The equivalent of typing in all caps.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 08:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,383
Let’s not righteously pounce on perceived ignorance. Point made, winning counterpoint offered in reply. Let’s move on and not let this distract us from the fact that it’s in schools’ best interests to have state approval for abnormal conditions in advance. This situation, and others like it that pop up every postseason, are entirely preventable with a little foresight.

It shouldn’t be put on officials to reconcile competing guidance—in this case NFHS BB rules and the ADA reasonable accommodations clause—when they are accountable for one but not the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 08:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post

It shouldn’t be put on officials to reconcile competing guidance—in this case NFHS BB rules and the ADA reasonable accommodations clause—when they are accountable for one but not the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This.

Officials job is to administer the game and rules. Not be deeply aware of legal interpretations of state/federal statutes. This is the role of the body which has actual legal departments to determine. If documentation is done ahead of time none of this is an issue.

None of it would have been an issue if anyone of the officiating crews that had previously this year had done what this crew did or at least informed the school/governing body that a decision or ruling would be needed.

Everyone needs to take care of business when business needs to be taken care of.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 10:20am
CJP CJP is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 261
"With less than two minutes left in the second quarter, a video shows, Culver's assistant coaches are standing up. Only the head coach is allowed to stand during live play, according to IHSAA rules.

As a referee motions for the Culver assistant coaches to sit down, he sees the woman standing and asks her to sit as well."

I find it odd that 14 minutes played before the signer was noticed. Maybe she was sitting the entire time during those 14 minutes. I just find it odd.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interpreter's Stipend? Jfpdi Basketball 19 Sat Oct 13, 2018 06:33am
Player coaching first Robert E. Harrison Baseball 11 Wed May 01, 2013 08:11am
State Rules Interpreter psujaye Basketball 13 Wed Aug 15, 2007 08:33pm
Interpreter's Conference Call ChuckElias Basketball 20 Thu Feb 16, 2006 02:30pm
New Sit. 4 me - Deaf Player Ref Daddy Basketball 32 Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:17pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1