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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 11:46am
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Odd ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I find it odd that 14 minutes played before the signer was noticed. Maybe she was sitting the entire time during those 14 minutes. I just find it odd.
Did the deaf player play the entire fourteen minutes?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 12:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
"With less than two minutes left in the second quarter, a video shows, Culver's assistant coaches are standing up. Only the head coach is allowed to stand during live play, according to IHSAA rules.

As a referee motions for the Culver assistant coaches to sit down, he sees the woman standing and asks her to sit as well."

I find it odd that 14 minutes played before the signer was noticed. Maybe she was sitting the entire time during those 14 minutes. I just find it odd.
Perhaps the deaf player was not in the game for most of those 14 minutes.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 12:21pm
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May I Answer ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
What is it about playoff games that causes officials to make issues out of stuff they would likely ignore the previous three months?
Even though it was offered as a rhetorical question, I would like to answer.

Here in Connecticut, previous to the state tournament there is a meeting for all officials selected to work the state tournament. Among many other topics, points of emphasis (not the same as the NFHS Points of Emphasis) for state tournament games are covered. These topics often include things like uniforms, equipment, coaching box, state medical and religious waivers, etc. One year a major point of emphasis was to keep players out of the jump ball circle during the announcement of the starting lineups. Lots of officials were "herding" players away from the circle before state tournament games that year.

Also, here in Connecticut we have six local boards that cover regular season games in six different geographic regions. We have a state tournament rule that states that officials (we only work with our local board partners, no crossovers) may only work games in which both of the teams, or neither of the teams, in a specific state tournament game be geographically affiliated with those local board officials (Connecticut is a very small state, with no state tournament geographic regions, state tournament officials can work anywhere in the entire state).

Last night I observed my friends work a game at a site (ninety minute drive for me, slightly longer for them) that they never worked at before, between two teams they've never worked, teams in two different conferences they've never worked, from two towns they've never worked in, with two coaches that they've never met.

Even though Connecticut is 100% IAABO, each local board may stress certain rules differently than other local IAABO boards. One may see varsity players wearing illegal sleeves in some local boards, but not at the varsity level in other local boards. Some local boards may stress coach deportment more than other local boards.

These differences often become apparent in state tournament games.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 01, 2019 at 04:30pm.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 12:49pm
CJP CJP is offline
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I watched first half on Youtube.

The player checks in the first quarter with 1:38 remaining and plays the remainder of the quarter. The signer is standing at the designated spot (ultimately where the officials told her to stay after the incident that generated the headline).

The player does not get any playing time until he checks in with 2:56 remaining in the second quarter. The signer is again where she is ultimately told to stand.

At 1:42 remaining in the 2nd, things have gotten a little chippy. The assistant is standing in the coaches box. The signer is at the designated spot. The assistant is told to sit and the officials get together. The player is near the officials and the signer moves out of her spot for the first time. She moves out onto the floor in what appeared to be an attempt to explain the situation. The coach brings her back. The officials break up their meeting and the official tells her to stay where she has been previously standing.

This is a big to do about nothing. It should not have made the paper. This spot is between the bench and the table. She is never next to the coach from what I seen. They are commonly seen 15-20 feet apart.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 01:00pm
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I haven't had time to watch the whole first half but I suspect that was the first time that the player was in the game. I heard that the player split time between JV and varsity during the season so that stands to reason.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 01:03pm
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I obviously hadn't noticed CJP's post before I commented.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 01:11pm
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Here's the video:

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 01:33pm
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Funnier Than Abbott & Costello ...

We've got a deaf official on our local board. Whenever we work a game together, during the pregame coach/captain/officials conference I always tell the coaches that if they have problem to yell at my partner and he always follows my comment with a smile and a thumbs up sign. Always gets a laugh, we should take our show on the road (wait, we do).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 01, 2019 at 02:30pm.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 04:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
We've got a deaf official on our local board. Whenever we work a game together, during the pregame coach/captain/officials conference I always tell the coaches that if they have problem to yell at my partner and he always follows my comment with a smile and a thumbs up sign. Always gets a laugh, we should take our show on the road (wait, we do).
I too work with a deaf official on some of our weekend youth stuff...I told him he is lucky he can't hear the BS from the parents.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 04:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjp View Post
this is a big to do about nothing. It should not have made the paper.
fake news!!!
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 08:47pm
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Why can't the interpreter just sit and perform her duties, like the other assistants? I first thought this but then realized that if the head coach moves too far she may not be able to hear him. Also, the coach may want to have a private conversation with a player and thus, she may need to stand to be closer to perform her duties. So....why can't she does stand/walk behind the bench? That would allow her to move with the coach, be in a safe position, and perform her duties to the fullest.

Another thought, this one perhaps dumb. Wouldn't a deaf person who had an interpreter have an advantage in any loud gym? I have seen thousands of games where the communication with the coach was absent due to noise. One indicated the interpreter was allowed to substantiate equal communication so if it gets loud enough, then shouldn't the interpreter be disallowed from communicating? Please don't answer. I know...dumb.

I am no expert, but anxiety? Don't all players have that? I certainly am neither trying to be funny nor insensitive but how does someone with an anxiety disorder play mainstream sports? Again, do not answer, I will research.

A player has an implant that allows them to hear what the coach is saying. The coach talks into an electronic device that send the words to the implant, where the player can hear them. Should that be legal? Should that have documentation? During a live ball and action on the court, the coach was holding the device to his mouth and talking to the player.
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Last edited by bucky; Sat Mar 02, 2019 at 01:27pm.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 11:52pm
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Resolve

OK, I understand the reactions to the original post, inaccurate as the various news accounts were. And also the obvious error and neglect of the NFHS (there goes my job application with them...oh well) to include the very plain and straightforward Interpretation they previously issued in the Casebook. I get all that.
Moving forward, is there any way the accumulated expertise and rules-assessment proficiency of those on this discussion forum can get this issue published by the NFHS in the Casebook this next season?
The fact that this incident occurred just north of the NFHS headquarters in Indianapolis doesn't sway me to think that they'd actually note the need.
Us?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 01, 2019, 11:56pm
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My Contribution

Since the protocol calls for us in our state to forward the request for a rules change or casebook revision to our state association, I'll be doing so right after the post-season tournament ends.
You?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 02, 2019, 08:06am
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I don't get the big deal. The kid's deaf, what does it matter if she stands right next to the coach or is moved to a place to accommodate her within the rules. As long as she can hear the coach and sign to him he's not looking at the coach anyway. This is a whole lot about nothing.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:35pm
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I have not gone through and read all the comments. To me the interpretation from 1989 still rings true to this day. The school, knowing they need a letter from the state association, verifying the hearing impaired condition and the use of the interpreter shall provide the letter to the officials which clearly states where the interpreter is allowed / required to be and where they are allowed to move.

I know some sports are much better about hearing impaired participation than others. Swimming and Diving is my primary sport and the NFHS does not do anywhere near a good job with hearing impaired swimmers. NCAA and USA Swimming both include the starting protocol for a hearing impaired swimmer in their rulebook. NFHS does not include the protocol in the rulebook, but it is in the officials guidebook. The problem is many associations, including the MHSAA do not provide this to the officials. In fact out of the officials in my assigning group, I am the only official that has seen that book. The reason, it was sent to me by the MHSAA to prove it exists. Supposedly it is for sale, but I have yet to find it on the NFHS publications website. Thankfully I know who the hearing impaired swimmers are for the schools I assign and have an official that I know knows the protocol work those meets.
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