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-   -   Coaching Box - Deaf Player's Interpreter Told No (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104420-coaching-box-deaf-players-interpreter-told-no.html)

RefsNCoaches Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:51am

Coaching Box - Deaf Player's Interpreter Told No
 
Would love to hear your commentary on this from the State of Indiana.

I think the crew did the best they could given the rule we are asked to follow but some are saying this is a violation of ADA.


https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ZIZbpZ8lcVuAR8

bob jenkins Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:26pm

Quote:

Cox said the officiating crew didn't initially know what the woman's role was. He said the officials were not told by Culver's coaching staff that the team had a deaf player and would have an interpreter assisting.
Why don't schools ever think to call / write the state on these types of issues to get clearance in advance?

RefsNCoaches Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:27pm

And there is this from the state of MI.

Federal civil rights suits say sign-language interpreters required by ADA are often lacking

I am betting the IHSAA is going to be involved in a suit on this matter given the parallels...

RefsNCoaches Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1030755)
Why don't schools ever think to call / write the state on these types of issues to get clearance in advance?

Bob, I agree and that is something I commented on, on the Facebook page. I brought up the religious medals and needing approval prior to the season. I was met with the ADA is there to include, not to require clearance. The clearance is already there.

I think the crew did what they felt was their option given the NFHS rule on coaching box we are asked to follow. Do I think that was the 100% best way to handle...No, I don't. But with that said, nowhere in the rule book is ADA brought into conversation. ... Now people are saying the officials, the host site (that didn't provide interpreter and the IHSAA) should be sued...What a mess!

You simply cannot account for every situation and I by no means think the NFHS rules override ADA laws....Where does common sense and going with it fall within the written rules.

BryanV21 Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:07pm

Without a directive from the NFHS or OHSAA I'm allowing the interpreter, unless for some reason safety is an issue.

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SC Official Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1030755)
Why don't schools ever think to call / write the state on these types of issues to get clearance in advance?

Because it's easier for them pressure us to just throw rules to the wayside "for the kids."

BillyMac Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:31pm

Connecticut ...
 
My game, I'm the referee, I'm asking for state paperwork, and absent that, I'm still allowing the interpreter to stand wherever it's best for the deaf player.

However, before I leave, I'm telling the head coach, and the athletic director/site director, to get paperwork from the state for the next game.

I'm also getting the player's name and number before I leave, and when I get home I'm emailing the information/situation to my local assignment commissioner who is the liaison between our officials and the schools/state.

I can guarantee that my assignment commissioner, my local interpreter, and my state interpreter will back me up 100%. I'm also willing to bet that the state will probably back me up as well.

Again, the usual caveat, when in Rome ...

griblets Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1030760)
Without a directive from the NFHS or OHSAA I'm allowing the interpreter, unless for some reason safety is an issue.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, this could open up a wide range of issues...
  • What about interpreters for those who don't speak the same language as the coach? Should they get to stand, too?
  • Are players with anxiety allowed to bring their therapy dogs to the bench area? (I have a daughter with anxiety who participates in sports, so I understand issues like this quite well.)

Why couldn't the interpreter interpret from a seat on the bench? That's not denying the player access to the coach's instructions. It seems the officials made an appropriate accommodation for the interpreter and people are still upset!

BryanV21 Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1030764)
My game, I'm the referee, I'm asking for state paperwork, and absent that, I'm still allowing the interpreter to stand wherever it's best for the deaf player.



However, before I leave, I'm telling the head coach, and the athletic director/site director, to get paperwork from the state for the next game.



I'm also getting the player's name and number before I leave, and when I get home I'm emailing the information/situation to my local assignment commissioner who is the liaison between our officials and the schools/state.



I can guarantee that my assignment commissioner, my local interpreter, and my state interpreter will back me up 100%. I'm also willing to bet that the state will probably back me up as well.



Again, the usual caveat, when in Rome ...

This is better than my answer. Lol

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BryanV21 Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by griblets (Post 1030765)
At the risk of sounding insensitive, this could open up a wide range of issues...


  • What about interpreters for those who don't speak the same language as the coach? Should they get to stand, too?


  • Are players with anxiety allowed to bring their therapy dogs to the bench area? (I have a daughter with anxiety who participates in sports, so I understand issues like this quite well.)



Why couldn't the interpreter interpret from a seat on the bench? That's not denying the player access to the coach's instructions. It seems the officials made an appropriate accommodation for the interpreter and people are still upset!

Obviously take it on a case by case basis.

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Raymond Thu Feb 28, 2019 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by griblets (Post 1030765)
At the risk of sounding insensitive, this could open up a wide range of issues...
  • What about interpreters for those who don't speak the same language as the coach? Should they get to stand, too?
  • Are players with anxiety allowed to bring their therapy dogs to the bench area? (I have a daughter with anxiety who participates in sports, so I understand issues like this quite well.)
...!

Are those disabilities covered by the ADA?

Altor Thu Feb 28, 2019 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by griblets (Post 1030765)
[*]What about interpreters for those who don't speak the same language as the coach? Should they get to stand, too?

I don't believe ESL students are covered by the ADA.
Quote:

[*]Are players with anxiety allowed to bring their therapy dogs to the bench area? (I have a daughter with anxiety who participates in sports, so I understand issues like this quite well.)
Two questions we are allowed to ask:
(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

If the facility has allowed the animal to enter the building, I'm certainly letting the animal stay in the bench area with the owner. I might balk at bringing it onto the court, barring some paperwork telling me otherwise. There are certainly other sports where a service animal could be used without these worries though...
https://www.today.com/health/blind-t...-dog-1C9434190

Pantherdreams Thu Feb 28, 2019 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by griblets (Post 1030765)

Why couldn't the interpreter interpret from a seat on the bench? That's not denying the player access to the coach's instructions. It seems the officials made an appropriate accommodation for the interpreter and people are still upset!

I think the governing association and the officials decided like you that giving the player some access to interpreter met the athletes need and their obligations.

Beyond that there are 2 groups of people upset.

1) Fans/followers who are in a twist because they got something one way all season long and then when someone tries to enforce a rule they get up in arms. Welcome to being a fan/follower.

2) The head of the legal branch of National Association for the deaf said in the article:
"Regardless of what the rules are for who may be on the sidelines, even if they limit access to coaches only, denying an interpreter is a violation of federal laws mandating equal access for deaf people."

Rosenblum said what happened "denies equal communication" for Joey.


So from the legal side they are likely going to argue the idea of equal communication. That if A1 can have a private convo with the coach standing in the box, Joey through hi interpreter all. need to be able to have a similar conversation with the coach. The argument will be that the interpreter is is not getting to communicate the coaches message are clearly, effectivey and in an equal way as the communication is happening.

RefsNCoaches Thu Feb 28, 2019 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 1030772)
I think the governing association and the officials decided like you that giving the player some access to interpreter met the athletes need and their obligations.

Beyond that there are 2 groups of people upset.

1) Fans/followers who are in a twist because they got something one way all season long and then when someone tries to enforce a rule they get up in arms. Welcome to being a fan/follower.

2) The head of the legal branch of National Association for the deaf said in the article:
"Regardless of what the rules are for who may be on the sidelines, even if they limit access to coaches only, denying an interpreter is a violation of federal laws mandating equal access for deaf people."

Rosenblum said what happened "denies equal communication" for Joey.


So from the legal side they are likely going to argue the idea of equal communication. That if A1 can have a private convo with the coach standing in the box, Joey through hi interpreter all. need to be able to have a similar conversation with the coach. The argument will be that the interpreter is is not getting to communicate the coaches message are clearly, effectivey and in an equal way as the communication is happening.

The cynical side of me says...if Joey is looking over at his interpreter for signs while on defense, he's at even more of a disadvantage....but I would also agree that the interpreter should be allowed access to communicate coach messages both in the huddle and during game.

Only once can I recall in my officiating years (20) where this type of thing came up and it was in a youth league. Of course, we allowed the interpreter to be where needed (which coach requested endline)...as long as they stayed back off the endline and out of the way of the officials..

This is the second event in the last month where the IHSAA is under fire. Now this one is a little more cut and dry to me...

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...aa/2949529002/

Freddy Thu Feb 28, 2019 03:48pm

1998,99 NFHS Interpretation
 
SITUATION 15: Team A has a player who is deaf. The coach requests that both a signer and head coach be allowed to occupy the optional coaching box in order to relay instructions to the affected player.
RULING: The school principal shall make a written request to the state high school association which shall include written verification from a physician confirming the condition. The state association, if it approves, will return a letter of approval and this letter shall be presented to the game officials prior to each contest.


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